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Brexit

Westministenders: The weasel DIDN'T die in a ditch

975 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2019 11:59

The EU has decided to grant the UK's request for an extension until 31 January.

This will be a "flextension",
i.e. if the WA is approved by the UK and EU Parliaments before that date, then we will leave earlier.

and .... despite all his blustering promises, the weasel BJ lives on,
preening his whiskers in self-love.

The more gullible Brexiters haven't yet twigged that he lies and lies.
And lies....

Meanwhile, another attempt by the UK to decide what to do:

From 2:30 pm today, MPs will debate whether to allow a GE on 12 December

This is a govt motion under the FTPA, which means BJ requires the votes of ⅔ of all MPs - that's 434

Hence he would need Labour support.

BJ's condition for a GE on this date is that MPs agree to pass the WA / WAB by 7 November,
which is the last day before Parliament would be automatically dissolved before the GE.

Corbyn said he'll only agree to a GE if BJ takes No Deal off the table.
This cannot be made legally binding, but as noone would take the word of a lying weasel, it is difficult for this condition to be satisfied.

Polls suggest that a GE after Brexit would be likely to give the Tories significantly more votes & seats than a GE before.
Both Labour & Tory want to game GE timing to their advantage.

Also, most Labour MPs are opposed to a GE after Brexit, for fear of losing the votes of millions of angry Labour Remainers - and their own seats.

A few on the Labour left do want a GE asap,
but Nick Brown, Labour’s chief whip, has warned Corbyn that many MPs would disobey orders to vote for 12 December.

Hence, BJ is expected to lose yet another HoC vote.
If so, reports suggest that the Cabinet are split over what to do next:

Some ministers, e.g. Gavin Williamson, want to agree to the SNP / LDem proposal to hold a GE on 9 December.

This would be via an amendment to the FTPA or a separate 1-line Act
and hence would require only a simple majority of MPs present
It would also be the last chance logistically for a GE before mid-February.
BUT
would require BJ to abandon attempts to pass the WAB before this.

Also, such a bill would be amendable and Tories fear the type of amendments could be added
e.g. a CU, or votes for 16-year-olds.

Hence other ministers and the Tory chairman James Cleverley oppose this idea.

It is unknown how BJ will decide.
His record is of aggressive bluster, then caving in at the last moment, while pretending he has won.

The EU have saved our bacon yet again, but may be running out of eye rolls "Please don't waste this time"

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RedToothBrush · 29/10/2019 17:27

Laura Kuenssberg@bbclaurak
Hoyle has not selected votes for 16 and 17 year olds or EU citizens but it's provisional until he confirms it in the speaker's chair which won't be until after the first vote in about twenty mins

BigChocFrenzy · 29/10/2019 17:27

The only amendment selected (by the Deputy Speaker) is Corbyn's one to change the GE date to 9 Dec

BJ will be irritated, but it shouldn't cause him to pull the bill

OP posts:
PotterHead1985 · 29/10/2019 17:27

AngryAngryAngry. That is all

BigChocFrenzy · 29/10/2019 17:28

Is Bercow in the loo ?

We need him !

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wondering7777 · 29/10/2019 17:29

The EU nationals vote - I presume that would apply to EU nationals living in the UK who aren't UK citizens?

Do UK nationals living in other EU countries like Spain, France etc get to vote in those countries' elections?

tobee · 29/10/2019 17:29

What I mean is, I thought the Speaker (or his deputy) only chose amendments that had a good point?

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 29/10/2019 17:30

@tobee MPs. It disgusts me that they just bugger off.

I'm also disgusted that EU nationals can't vote. I didn't know that and am appalled that amendment hasn't been selected.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/10/2019 17:30

In Germany, I can vote in local elections, mayoral elections, state elections, but not GEs

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RedToothBrush · 29/10/2019 17:30

Paul Waugh @paulwaugh
So, Lindsay Hoyle has selected Corbyn date change to Dec 9 and Ian Murray date change to May 7 2020. But NOT selected 16/17yrolds and EU citizens amendments.

Tom peck @tompeck
Banter heuristic latest - the Commons is surely about to pass amendments moving the general election to both December 9 AND May 2020

Jim Waterson @jimwaterson
Surely that would just hardwire both dates into the FTPA, meaning that an election would be held by default in both December and May and it would be up to the newly-formed parliament to pass legislation before March to remove the May 2020 date.

Tom peck @tompeck
You’re probably right but I’ve got absolutely no idea

Jim Waterson @jimwaterson
I think it would just become a fixed term parliament act, but with the terms fixed at six months in length, like we're Italian or Australian or something.

Basilpots · 29/10/2019 17:30

Sounds just like my Dad kitten I was also ‘groomed’ as a Tory.

Went to pot when I left home at 19 though I have voted all sorts of ways and feel zero affiliation to any one party. They have to ‘work’ for my vote.

Or be that bad I will vote for just about anyone to get rid.

HoneysuckIejasmine · 29/10/2019 17:31

Sorry to ask a basic question - on what basis does the speaker (or his deputy) decide which amendments to put forward? Is it based on law or precedent? Or just a passing fancy?

RedToothBrush · 29/10/2019 17:31

I don't think anyone knows what's going on atm.

Amendment news appears to only be unofficial atm.

wondering7777 · 29/10/2019 17:32

In Germany, I can vote in local elections, mayoral elections, state elections, but not GEs

Interesting, thanks BigChoc.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/10/2019 17:32

The vote for EU nationals is just to make the Tories burst a collective blood vessel Grin

The votes for 16 & 17 year olds worked well in Scotland and I refuse to believe that Scottish teens are more mature than rUK ones

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KanelbulleKing · 29/10/2019 17:33

Do UK nationals living in other EU countries like Spain, France etc get to vote in those countries' elections?

Nope, we get to vote nowhere.

tobee · 29/10/2019 17:35

@HoneysuckIejasmine when this question was asked here some time ago, some kind version linked to a video of John Bercow answering that question.

Basilpots · 29/10/2019 17:35

Nope, we get to vote nowhere.

It’s something that definitely needs looking at not just in this country then.

Hasenstein · 29/10/2019 17:36

Bercows

Not allowing EU nationals to vote has long been a bugbear of mine (no taxation without representation, I thought). Surely if they can withdraw the vote from ex-pats after 15 years (which I think is now the case), they should allow EU nationals who've been here for that length of time to vote.

EU nationals in the UK contribute more in income tax than Wales and Northern Ireland combined. Just doesn't seem fair, although I'm sure pp will come back with persuasive counter-arguments.

tobee · 29/10/2019 17:37

This:

DGRossetti · 29/10/2019 17:37

It’s something that definitely needs looking at not just in this country then.

The bitter irony is that it's waaaaaaaaay beyond the EUs remit, because national governments are sovereign ...

Once again, such disenfranchisement is 100% made in the UK.

Jellykat · 29/10/2019 17:38

Can someone PLEASE explain what difference a GE would make on Dec 9th, as opposed to the 12th??.. I just dont get it Confused

KanelbulleKing · 29/10/2019 17:39

It’s something that definitely needs looking at not just in this country then.

My understanding is that the UK rule disenfranchising expats after 15 years is not the norm. Most countries allow all their citizens to vote wherever they are. Some even have MPs elected solely by overseas voters to represent their interests.

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 29/10/2019 17:39

My mum is fighting her upbringing as a Tory. She's admitted after lots of err-ing and erm-ing that she voted leave to enable us to make our own laws 🤦‍♀️ We have had a rather heated discussion today where I pointed out that the tories are the reason she is much worse off and has had to take out a loan because the government no longer give her help towards her interest only mortgage now she's a widow. She's 80 ffs. My family isn't one that helps others. They are very much I'm alright jack. I'm totally different and probably why I can't stand them and am
NC with most of them. My dB is a Tory through and through he says. So he's voting for his own mum's poverty. My dad grew up very poor but still voted Tory. Labour was like a dirty word in our house.

Maybe I'm the milkman's 🤷🏼‍♀️

JustAnotherPoster00 · 29/10/2019 17:40

Britain Elects
@britainelects
·
7m
Cambridge Westminster voting intention:

LDEM: 39% (+10)
LAB: 30% (-22)
GRN: 12% (+10)
CON: 10% (-6)
BREX: 7% (+7)

via
@Survation
, 16 - 17 Oct
Chgs. w/ 2017 result

Basilpots · 29/10/2019 17:40

Some even have MPs elected solely by overseas voters to represent their interests.

I think France has one of those.

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