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Brexit

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 13:19

Status Recall as of approx 1

Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement (The WA) :
Currently parliamentary session blocked in its current form due to being nodded through (government accept defeat without vote). It can not be represented to the house without changes (which the EU will not allow - unless perhaps it reverts back to May's WA) or a 'substantive change of circumstances' (eg another party says they will support it and there is reason to believe Johnson now has a clear majority).

The Withdrawal Agreement Bill (The WAB):
The withdrawal agreement bill is purely about how the WA will be carried out in UK law. It passed its 2nd reading which is merely a indication of interest of support for the bill. The next stage is where amendments can be made and this is most relevant to the political declaration which accompanies the WA settlement.

This however has hit a road block due to the government recklessly and foolishly trying to push such an important and far reaching bill through in a ridiculous time frame, which no one could possibly give proper scrutiny to.

If Johnson wants a deal in the best int3of the country its an essential part of the process regardless of which side of the fence you sit. Failure to spot problems could leave us shafted by other countries later down the line.

The timetable is now under review and negotiation with Corbyn.

The extension with the EU:
The EU president has signaled he would support an extension. This is in part because issues in London mean it is highly unlikely the EU will be able to ratify a deal by next Thursday even if they have an emergency meeting. It's in their interests to extend in some way.

Going along with the Benn Act is the politically least risky option, though France are making growling noises about it.

Two issues spring up with this. The first is the issue of the UK having no EU Commissioner after 1st Nov and the second is the EU budget runs until 31st Dec 2019.

The Queens Speech:
The government as it stands might struggle to pass the QS especially with the DUP off side. It failing to pass is, in some ways, a good thing for Johnson. The speech was essentially a manifesto and blocking it is a good electioneering strategy. It also puts pressure on the opposition for a Vote of No Confidence.

There are already rumblings following the passing of the 2nd reading of the WAB and the EU signally they are open to an extension that some in Labour (including crucially Corbyn) do think they must agree to a GE in the autumn.

A Vonc is still unlikely to happen until the EU formalise the extension and the EU are unlikely to do this until its clear what Johnson's next move with the WAB is. Johnson meanwhile doesn't want to agree to a longer timetable as that ruins his do or die speech and facilitates an extension. So expect some brinkmanship over timings here. We might not get a formal extension approved until the wire.

The GE:
All Brexit is currently about is manoeuvring to win the next GE. It must be seen in this context.

Polling suggests that an extension without the WA is bad for Johnson and he is likely to lose support to the Brexit Party. There is an ever shrinking likelihood of the WA going through before 31st Oct, if its not impossible already. Thus Johnson needs to see if he can get the WA through very quickly after an extension but before a GE.

This reasonably lines up with Labour's problems. Before the WA goes through a GE looks bad for them with them haemorrhaging support to the LDs and the the Brexit Party.

If they are seen to facilitate the WA passing before an election then there may also be a sense of betrayal amongst their majority remain supporters but it might let them off with the Brexit Party threat particularly in the Midlands.

Meanwhile the SNP have an increasing desire for a GE. They look like they will clean up in Scotland and it might be their last chance now to stop Brexit. Similar logic applies to the LDs.

Thus the chances of a GE shoot up once an extension is granted, but the Cons and Labour have a mutual self interest in getting a deal done ASAP before a GE in many ways.

This of course would probably suit the French and therefore the EU.

Which is why a deal before 15th Nov and by the 15th Dec, isnt unrealistic. A GE might come before Christmas but I think both the Cons and Lab have something of an interest in letting the dust settle and getting new messaging in to head off threats from the LDs and Brexit Party. I'd be more inclined to say a Feb election tbh.

Anyway things may have changed since I started typing this up given how quickly things are moving.

But despite the headlines that Brexit is in pergortory it is now slowly rolling forward and now has some momentum behind it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
0lga · 23/10/2019 13:21

Thank you for the excellent summary Red

yolofish · 23/10/2019 13:22

Early PMK for once, still totally confused so am renovating kitchen floor while listening to Sky News and about to have glass of Wine and a pizza to reward my hard work.

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 23/10/2019 13:32

PMK. Thanks again red.

TheMShip · 23/10/2019 13:33

Thanks Red. Hope this thread lasts a little longer, no nailbiters today ... for now!

DGRossetti · 23/10/2019 13:33

.

NoWordForFluffy · 23/10/2019 13:34

PMK.

Thanks, Red.

AwdBovril · 23/10/2019 13:34

PMK. Thanks, as always, Red.

BoreOfWhabylon · 23/10/2019 13:35

PMK

And a request for @OhYouBadBadKitten to let us know the long-range weather forecast for December.

derxa · 23/10/2019 13:35

,

KanelbulleKing · 23/10/2019 13:36

Pmk

barnun · 23/10/2019 13:38

PMK

JustAnotherPoster00 · 23/10/2019 13:40

PMK - I always love election night, that sense of excitement and ultimately, as a Labour member, a sense of disappointment when we havent won again Grin Grin, Ive been like that since the '92 election which was the first time I could vote and I thought Kinnock would get in

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 13:41

And a request for @OhYouBadBadKitten to let us know the long-range weather forecast for December.

It's late October. The newspapers always tell us we are on course for the worst December weather on record in late October. Snowmeggedon is imminent.

Until its not and rudolph is merely disappointed by the lack of gritters making landings treacherous.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 13:42

Thanks, red 💐

"highly unlikely the EU will be able to ratify a deal by next Thursday even if they have an emergency meeting. "
"an ever shrinking likelihood of the WA going through before 31st Oct"

It is impossible to Brexit on 31 Oct
(According to EP published schedule, German news + my work colleague with his family heavily involved in SPD politics)

Because...
It has been impossible since last Saturday, or at least Monday, for the EP to be able to approve it in time

(From Verhofstadt)
The EP can only approve it after the HoC has passed the WA & WAB in full, plus Royal Assent recvd

The EP are in recess next week and cannot be recalled at this stage
Their last plenary session before recess is tomorrow

There are 751 MEPs, some on official delegations abroad next week,
plus 1200 staff - so 2,000 people some of whom have longstanding vacation or business trips booked

It is impossible to bring them all back now at this notice - it would be chaos and the EP would refuse to even attempt it

JustAnotherPoster00 · 23/10/2019 13:43

Jim Pickard
@PickardJE
· 42m
Jo Swinson pointedly asks Boris Johnson to express his gratitude to the 19 Labour MPs who backed his deal as well as Jeremy Corbyn for meeting the PM this morning to discuss “how to push through the bad Brexit deal” #pmqs

BirdandSparrow · 23/10/2019 13:44

PMK

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 13:45

Paul Brand @paulbranditv
NEW: At lobby briefing, No 10 didn’t sound as if new timetable for WAB is serious prospect.

No 10 waiting for response from EU about a delay, but says Parliament will just push for even more delay.

“any time it gets chance to vote for delay, it will always vote for delay.”

Reading between the lines, No 10 is waiting for EU to offer 3 month extension, which PM is forced to accept, then plough on with general election before xmas (if possible).

But currently v difficult to read No 10. PM’s tone in the House during #PMQs was quite different to tone of briefing.

EU don't want to make the first move either and be seen to be forcing the extension. They want Johnson to make move on the WAB timetable first...

... Once again it's about who blinks first.

The EU technically don't have to. They aren't the ones who legally are accountable for breaking the law and no dealing...

OP posts:
AutumnCrow · 23/10/2019 13:45

Today I'm helping a friend with the utter debacle that is their dependent adult DS's Universal Credit claim. The DS has multiple disabilities and I am getting angrier and angrier with Ian Duncan Smith and the government for promoting and supporting this cruel process, while they lie in the Commons about compassion in front of my eyes. (TV on in background.)

UC doesn't even accept portability of the DWP appointeeship from the (successful) PIP claim.

Wine Trebles all round

HeyNotInMyName · 23/10/2019 13:46

PMK

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 13:46

Westministenders' Abbreviations:

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eureferendumm2016/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation?msgid=84503730

HeyNotInMyName · 23/10/2019 13:47

@AutumnCrow, I feel for you and your friend having seeing how much a friend of mine has been struggling with her PIP etc...
It is heartbreaking

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 23/10/2019 13:48

Thanks red

lonelyplanetmum · 23/10/2019 13:49

PMK- thank you to RTB and all.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 13:52

Autumn Your friend must be so thankful she / he has you
This cruel UC process is a feature not a bug

Evil bastard IDS and all who sailed with himAngry

AutumnCrow · 23/10/2019 13:54

@HeyNotInMyName thank you, it's just horrendous. This is a vicious government using Brexit as a Trojan horse to get its horrific social policies through the disassembled Labour lines.

As @Red keeps saying, this isn't really about Brexit. It's about Johnson winning a General Election.