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Brexit

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 13:19

Status Recall as of approx 1

Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement (The WA) :
Currently parliamentary session blocked in its current form due to being nodded through (government accept defeat without vote). It can not be represented to the house without changes (which the EU will not allow - unless perhaps it reverts back to May's WA) or a 'substantive change of circumstances' (eg another party says they will support it and there is reason to believe Johnson now has a clear majority).

The Withdrawal Agreement Bill (The WAB):
The withdrawal agreement bill is purely about how the WA will be carried out in UK law. It passed its 2nd reading which is merely a indication of interest of support for the bill. The next stage is where amendments can be made and this is most relevant to the political declaration which accompanies the WA settlement.

This however has hit a road block due to the government recklessly and foolishly trying to push such an important and far reaching bill through in a ridiculous time frame, which no one could possibly give proper scrutiny to.

If Johnson wants a deal in the best int3of the country its an essential part of the process regardless of which side of the fence you sit. Failure to spot problems could leave us shafted by other countries later down the line.

The timetable is now under review and negotiation with Corbyn.

The extension with the EU:
The EU president has signaled he would support an extension. This is in part because issues in London mean it is highly unlikely the EU will be able to ratify a deal by next Thursday even if they have an emergency meeting. It's in their interests to extend in some way.

Going along with the Benn Act is the politically least risky option, though France are making growling noises about it.

Two issues spring up with this. The first is the issue of the UK having no EU Commissioner after 1st Nov and the second is the EU budget runs until 31st Dec 2019.

The Queens Speech:
The government as it stands might struggle to pass the QS especially with the DUP off side. It failing to pass is, in some ways, a good thing for Johnson. The speech was essentially a manifesto and blocking it is a good electioneering strategy. It also puts pressure on the opposition for a Vote of No Confidence.

There are already rumblings following the passing of the 2nd reading of the WAB and the EU signally they are open to an extension that some in Labour (including crucially Corbyn) do think they must agree to a GE in the autumn.

A Vonc is still unlikely to happen until the EU formalise the extension and the EU are unlikely to do this until its clear what Johnson's next move with the WAB is. Johnson meanwhile doesn't want to agree to a longer timetable as that ruins his do or die speech and facilitates an extension. So expect some brinkmanship over timings here. We might not get a formal extension approved until the wire.

The GE:
All Brexit is currently about is manoeuvring to win the next GE. It must be seen in this context.

Polling suggests that an extension without the WA is bad for Johnson and he is likely to lose support to the Brexit Party. There is an ever shrinking likelihood of the WA going through before 31st Oct, if its not impossible already. Thus Johnson needs to see if he can get the WA through very quickly after an extension but before a GE.

This reasonably lines up with Labour's problems. Before the WA goes through a GE looks bad for them with them haemorrhaging support to the LDs and the the Brexit Party.

If they are seen to facilitate the WA passing before an election then there may also be a sense of betrayal amongst their majority remain supporters but it might let them off with the Brexit Party threat particularly in the Midlands.

Meanwhile the SNP have an increasing desire for a GE. They look like they will clean up in Scotland and it might be their last chance now to stop Brexit. Similar logic applies to the LDs.

Thus the chances of a GE shoot up once an extension is granted, but the Cons and Labour have a mutual self interest in getting a deal done ASAP before a GE in many ways.

This of course would probably suit the French and therefore the EU.

Which is why a deal before 15th Nov and by the 15th Dec, isnt unrealistic. A GE might come before Christmas but I think both the Cons and Lab have something of an interest in letting the dust settle and getting new messaging in to head off threats from the LDs and Brexit Party. I'd be more inclined to say a Feb election tbh.

Anyway things may have changed since I started typing this up given how quickly things are moving.

But despite the headlines that Brexit is in pergortory it is now slowly rolling forward and now has some momentum behind it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
ListeningQuietly · 23/10/2019 15:00

My dream situation is that Bozo gets his GE vote
and the next day Corbyn steps down and Labour pick a full throated remainer to lead on the Brexit is a right wing coup against the workers line

and then I wake up and Corbyn is still checking his kale for cabbage whites Sad

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 15:05

DG BXP draw votes mostly from the Tories
At the EP elections, we saw how that hammered Tory seats

Of course, different voting system and a strongly Brexity leader in the GE,
but check a GE seat predictor with 16, 20, 24% BXP input and see how the Tory seats slump - Labour & LDem gain the seats, not BXP

No prediction is reliable with 4 strongish UK parties under FPTP, but the Tories will be worried about BXP taking their votes in a GE before Brexit

  • watch for slogans "Vote Farage, Get Corbyn" -

and will try to manipulate GE thetoric, timing and circumstances to suppress BXP

BJ wants a large majority to be able to ignore the remaining moderate Tory MPs, get a hard Brexit through
and a 5-year term so enough voters will have forgotten who caused all the shit

DarlingNikita · 23/10/2019 15:05

PMK. Thanks Red.

Outsomnia · 23/10/2019 15:09

I doubt Tories have enough in the coffers to run another election so soon after the last one. Do they?

And to ListeningQuietly.......
"My dream situation is that Bozo gets his GE vote
and the next day Corbyn steps down and Labour pick a full throated remainer to lead on the Brexit is a right wing coup against the workers line and then I wake up and Corbyn is still checking his kale for cabbage whites"

Brilliant!

OublietteBravo · 23/10/2019 15:10

Another PMK from sunny Cyprus 🇨🇾

GingerPCatt · 23/10/2019 15:13

For @tobee
PMKat

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living
FishesaPlenty · 23/10/2019 15:14

and then I wake up and Corbyn is still checking his kale for cabbage whites

Cabbage whites will be less of a distraction for him if we have a winter election though.

DGRossetti · 23/10/2019 15:14

Most of us want to think better of the electorate

Hmm

Clearly I had a different upbringing then Sad. And I paid attention in history. Double trouble.

tobee · 23/10/2019 15:15

I remember a lot of people saying the last thing Labour needs right now is a change of leader not long ago. But is it technically possible to fit in a change of leader in any way? Would it be worse than it is now? Obviously, chances are strong that they'd fuck up and get some twit in to replace him. Just interested. Smile

Mistigri · 23/10/2019 15:16

DGR my point was that we'd like to think better - but it would probably be naive to do so.

tobee · 23/10/2019 15:17

Thank you @GingerPCatt!

Happy to see dogs, guineas, flowers, rabbits etc. Might even load a photo of my own wig guinea pig! Grin

OublietteBravo · 23/10/2019 15:18

Dear Oubliette,

Last week, we finally secured a great new Brexit deal for Britain and for the first time in three years a deal has passed Parliament.

But tonight Labour have voted to delay it.

Jeremy Corbyn and Labour have voted for more delay and more uncertainty. They have humiliated the country again.

I’m determined to get Brexit done. But I need your help.

Make a donation to the Conservative Party today, and help us get Brexit done.

Make a donation

Jeremy Corbyn and Labour will ensure all we keep talking about is delaying Brexit and more referendums – on Brexit and Scotland.

We are the only thing standing between Jeremy Corbyn and Downing Street and another year or more of talking about Brexit. I’m asking you to stand with us. Will you chip in?

Yours sincerely,

Boris Johnson

Sent to Tory Party members yesterday - I think it’s safe to say they’re desperately trying to raise funds for a GE.

placemats · 23/10/2019 15:21

Raise funds? Hmm

I got this too - I know, I was interested in what the Tories had to say and now have stopped the updates.

The Tory Party is a VERY wealthy party.

flouncyfanny · 23/10/2019 15:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mrslaughan · 23/10/2019 15:22

Actually @OublietteBravo , you have reminded me - did I see somewhere that labour doesn't have the funds to fight a GE effectively.....or was that "fake news"

tobee · 23/10/2019 15:22

And Jeremy Corbyn is their bogeyman

flouncyfanny · 23/10/2019 15:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DGRossetti · 23/10/2019 15:24

I've noticed a couple of suggestions for Boris Johnson groups I might like to join on facebook.

I dismissed them both as "offensive". And noticed in doing so that Facebook moved the options between the two, presumably to catch out the less sophisticated of the bots. But it did lead me to wonder what proportion of polling is now being answered by botfeed. Polling companies would insist it's none, but then they would say that, wouldn't they ?

Of course the work required to botproof your poll (which sounds like something you'd need rubber gloves, a friend and a weekend for) costs money, making your polls more expensive and therefore less saleable.

Ain't modern life grand ?

OublietteBravo · 23/10/2019 15:25

They normally have clicky links to donate ÂŁ25, ÂŁ50, ÂŁ100 or ÂŁ150 - with the link to ÂŁ100 highlighted in a different colour.

I’d bloody love to tell Diana Ditch exactly what I think of him. But I doubt he’d ever read anything I wrote.

placemats · 23/10/2019 15:25

Re: winter elections. There's always the postal vote. However this does depend a lot on volunteers helping out, same with getting members/voters to the polling station.

Do winter elections work for the incumbent Government?

DGRossetti · 23/10/2019 15:27

I got this too - I know, I was interested in what the Tories had to say and now have stopped the updates. The Tory Party is a VERY wealthy party.

Wasn't there a flurry of big donors pulling out as soon as it was clear they were going the full Brexit ? That's before you think about any subscriptions that may have been dependent on companies doing well ...

And we know Tim Martin and James Dyson aren't coughing up.

DGRossetti · 23/10/2019 15:28

Do winter elections work for the incumbent Government?

We have no idea. Unless you want to extrapolate from data that was last current before TV was extant, and people had gas lighting ?

placemats · 23/10/2019 15:29

Hope this image goes through. Quite apt!

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living
placemats · 23/10/2019 15:35

There is this:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Kingdom_general_elections

Lot's of November elections!

prettybird · 23/10/2019 15:36

There was a December GE in 1910 - which resulted in a hung Parliament with the Irish Parliamentary Party holding the balance of power. Shock

This followed a January election, earlier the same year which also resulted in a hung parliament.

Parallels? Wink