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Brexit

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 13:19

Status Recall as of approx 1

Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement (The WA) :
Currently parliamentary session blocked in its current form due to being nodded through (government accept defeat without vote). It can not be represented to the house without changes (which the EU will not allow - unless perhaps it reverts back to May's WA) or a 'substantive change of circumstances' (eg another party says they will support it and there is reason to believe Johnson now has a clear majority).

The Withdrawal Agreement Bill (The WAB):
The withdrawal agreement bill is purely about how the WA will be carried out in UK law. It passed its 2nd reading which is merely a indication of interest of support for the bill. The next stage is where amendments can be made and this is most relevant to the political declaration which accompanies the WA settlement.

This however has hit a road block due to the government recklessly and foolishly trying to push such an important and far reaching bill through in a ridiculous time frame, which no one could possibly give proper scrutiny to.

If Johnson wants a deal in the best int3of the country its an essential part of the process regardless of which side of the fence you sit. Failure to spot problems could leave us shafted by other countries later down the line.

The timetable is now under review and negotiation with Corbyn.

The extension with the EU:
The EU president has signaled he would support an extension. This is in part because issues in London mean it is highly unlikely the EU will be able to ratify a deal by next Thursday even if they have an emergency meeting. It's in their interests to extend in some way.

Going along with the Benn Act is the politically least risky option, though France are making growling noises about it.

Two issues spring up with this. The first is the issue of the UK having no EU Commissioner after 1st Nov and the second is the EU budget runs until 31st Dec 2019.

The Queens Speech:
The government as it stands might struggle to pass the QS especially with the DUP off side. It failing to pass is, in some ways, a good thing for Johnson. The speech was essentially a manifesto and blocking it is a good electioneering strategy. It also puts pressure on the opposition for a Vote of No Confidence.

There are already rumblings following the passing of the 2nd reading of the WAB and the EU signally they are open to an extension that some in Labour (including crucially Corbyn) do think they must agree to a GE in the autumn.

A Vonc is still unlikely to happen until the EU formalise the extension and the EU are unlikely to do this until its clear what Johnson's next move with the WAB is. Johnson meanwhile doesn't want to agree to a longer timetable as that ruins his do or die speech and facilitates an extension. So expect some brinkmanship over timings here. We might not get a formal extension approved until the wire.

The GE:
All Brexit is currently about is manoeuvring to win the next GE. It must be seen in this context.

Polling suggests that an extension without the WA is bad for Johnson and he is likely to lose support to the Brexit Party. There is an ever shrinking likelihood of the WA going through before 31st Oct, if its not impossible already. Thus Johnson needs to see if he can get the WA through very quickly after an extension but before a GE.

This reasonably lines up with Labour's problems. Before the WA goes through a GE looks bad for them with them haemorrhaging support to the LDs and the the Brexit Party.

If they are seen to facilitate the WA passing before an election then there may also be a sense of betrayal amongst their majority remain supporters but it might let them off with the Brexit Party threat particularly in the Midlands.

Meanwhile the SNP have an increasing desire for a GE. They look like they will clean up in Scotland and it might be their last chance now to stop Brexit. Similar logic applies to the LDs.

Thus the chances of a GE shoot up once an extension is granted, but the Cons and Labour have a mutual self interest in getting a deal done ASAP before a GE in many ways.

This of course would probably suit the French and therefore the EU.

Which is why a deal before 15th Nov and by the 15th Dec, isnt unrealistic. A GE might come before Christmas but I think both the Cons and Lab have something of an interest in letting the dust settle and getting new messaging in to head off threats from the LDs and Brexit Party. I'd be more inclined to say a Feb election tbh.

Anyway things may have changed since I started typing this up given how quickly things are moving.

But despite the headlines that Brexit is in pergortory it is now slowly rolling forward and now has some momentum behind it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
MockersthefeMANist · 25/10/2019 11:34

JFK talking to SuperMac about a senior UK diplomat said 'He was my fag at Eton.' JFK, not quite understanding, was dumbfounded.

TheElementsSong · 25/10/2019 11:34

They're Westminstenders equivalent of the Kardashians in that respect.

You'd better not be suggesting I have a huge arse DG Angry

mrslaughan · 25/10/2019 11:36

@placemats - well it is a stunt- yet again to silence parliament and restrict debate.

Re ;Christmas election - most of the tories who want it - never have to worry about money being tight - and someone else organises Christmas- the just turn up having no conception of what went on to make it happen.

DGRossetti · 25/10/2019 11:37

But if we don’t have an election then Boris stays in power, his deal will be passed and we will leave the EU. Is that what you want?

As we are finding out, Boris is not "in power". He can't do what he wants.

I may be wrong, but it wasn't until last month that the FTPA revealed how much UK politics has shifted in such a short period of time. The rules of the game have changed overnight, and are leaving the current crop of politicians trying to play with last years rules.

(If nothing else an election will bring in a fair proportion of new-wave politicians who have started to grasp and work the new way).

The FTPA was introduced as part of the LibDems price of power, and aided by the expenses-scandal (history books will all mention duck houses) revulsion of the electorate at a cynical political class.

Personally, if the tuition fees incident was a -10 in Cleggs book, I'm starting to award him (and the LibDems) +100 for the FTPA which is only now starting to bite. But bite hard.

And the underlying philosophy is still sound. Governments are elected to govern in the countries best interests. It may look good on paper to say "but at least we can kick out an unpopular government" but that's a big ol' load of sweaty bollocks. I can't ever recall an unpopular government being "kicked out" - and I've known a few.

So having seen that "kicking them out" is a crock, the Next Best Thing is to hold them to account - exactly as we are. And if that means they have to turn a few pages back in the "C" section of the dictionary to find the word "compromise" then so be it.

Basilpots · 25/10/2019 11:39

I'm autistic, sometimes I can read between the lines and as shown here, sometimes it goes right over my head and I only see the words as they are in front of me. blush

No worries I have re read things sometimes to check if it’s a poster I am unfamiliar with. Smile. It’s very easy to get the wrong end of the stick.

prettybird · 25/10/2019 11:41

From that Guardian article...

"The miscalculation here is that the PM might be popular, but he is not trusted. And this manoeuvre, if the public don’t buy it as genuine, might reinforce the impression that he is sneaky, untrustworthy and too clever by half.”

Indeed Grin

DGRossetti · 25/10/2019 11:45

Just to lighten the mood, went to see the excellent Ellie Taylor last night. Very funny, very talented. She was supported by a one-to-watch (was on Mock The Week last year) Olga Koch, who is Russian, but studied in the US and lives here. Went down well to a full house.

I found myself idly ruminating on multiculturalism in between laughs. Plus the evolving nature of comedy, and how it seems female comedians are finding a voice and that it's possible to also play to a completely mixed audience ... (She did a shout out for parents, new parents, expectant parents and the childfree and it was a pretty even spread) with jokes about pregnancy, birth, friendship groups, and normal everyday stuff.

As you were Grin

ContinuityError · 25/10/2019 11:49

Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn

That No10 threat to go on strike by putting nothing more before Parliament if an election isn’t agreed? It’s off. Only Brexit legislation will be held back. PM spokesman: “He has a domestic agenda. We want to deliver for the British public”.

Guess some hasty Tory polling has suggested that going on strike wasn’t going down too well?

TokyoSushi · 25/10/2019 11:49

Please can I be Kourtney DG? She's my favourite Grin

ContinuityError · 25/10/2019 11:53

Also seeing views on the EUCO making a written decision on the extension length is pointing towards the 31/1/20 date.

derxa · 25/10/2019 11:53

Jezza in electioneering mode on Richard and Judy this morning. Yes the Richard and Judy

Basilpots · 25/10/2019 11:54

Hmm aren’t their postal strikes planned around Christmas or has that all been sorted. That could be a problem for postal voters.

Basilpots · 25/10/2019 11:55

Richard and Judy are back ???

ContinuityError · 25/10/2019 11:57

I’d forgotten about the planned postal strikes - AFAIK they are still going ahead but no dates specified as yet.

DarlingNikita · 25/10/2019 11:58

Does Boris Johnson really want us to leave the EU? Because his actions suggest otherwise.

Yes, you have to wonder, don't you?

placemats · 25/10/2019 11:58

Re: Henry VIII's Powers this excellent piece on what it means to citizens' rights.

ukconstitutionallaw.org/2019/10/24/adam-tucker-a-first-critical-look-at-the-scrutiny-of-delegated-legislation-in-the-withdrawal-agreement-bill/

derxa · 25/10/2019 11:59

Richard and Judy are back ??? No it's a one off

Monsterinmyshoe · 25/10/2019 12:04

ContinuityError

Quite telling how BJ isn't the one breaking the news. Maybe SJ is drip feeding.

I'm not sure how you can blame parliament and JC for delaying Brexit due to running out of time, when your party have prorogued parliament for no reason other than to avoid scruitiny and to run down the clock.

DGRossetti · 25/10/2019 12:09

Does Boris Johnson really want us to leave the EU? Because his actions suggest otherwise

If Boris could find a way to stay PM and revoke Brexit, he'd believe there was God. The problem is, as he heads for the cliff, is that he's being pushed forward by the very crowds he whipped up in 2016 looking to him to be the New Messiah. And he has to hope they don't realise he's actually just a Very Naughty Boy.

Sadly, the Leavers in parliament aren't quite as thick as their supporters outside, and having achieved their win by lying and backstabbing, they now see lies and backstabs everywhere, and have closed down any chance of the noble retreat.

All of which being said, I think Boris is channelling Milton and has decided it is better to rule in hell than serve in heaven. And that's where he's taking us. Bearing in mind Brexit means fuck all to him. He won't lose a penny, a home, or a child to it.

DGRossetti · 25/10/2019 12:10

Quite telling how BJ isn't the one breaking the news. Maybe SJ is drip feeding.

Or cannon fodder.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/10/2019 12:11

Adam Parsons@adamparsons

EU ambassadors have ended their meeting.
As I predicted yesterday, they agree on the need for an extension, but not on the structure,

and there will be no announcement about an extension today.

More talks over the weekend.
But I wouldn't hold your breath for anything concrete about an extension until - yes, you guessed it - after the Westminster vote

placemats · 25/10/2019 12:12

Johnson and Gove vote Leave illegality. Thread on twitter by Ian Lucas MP.

twitter.com/IanCLucas/status/1185962901368168449

Hester54 · 25/10/2019 12:13

TheElementsSong Not at all because the unenforceable 3 month rule doesn’t stop anybody from the EU coming to live/live and work in the U.K., that’s a fact

derxa · 25/10/2019 12:13

Bearing in mind Brexit means fuck all to him. He won't lose a penny, a home, or a child to it. I think that's the most important point of all.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/10/2019 12:14

Daniel Moylan@danielmgmoylan

My guess is that @EmmanuelMacron (to whom this Commons has humiliatingly handed the decision) will see if the House will agree an election

and then, if not, will impose a hard November extension,

with none of this Tusk nonsense about an automatic renewal to end-January.

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