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Brexit

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 13:19

Status Recall as of approx 1

Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement (The WA) :
Currently parliamentary session blocked in its current form due to being nodded through (government accept defeat without vote). It can not be represented to the house without changes (which the EU will not allow - unless perhaps it reverts back to May's WA) or a 'substantive change of circumstances' (eg another party says they will support it and there is reason to believe Johnson now has a clear majority).

The Withdrawal Agreement Bill (The WAB):
The withdrawal agreement bill is purely about how the WA will be carried out in UK law. It passed its 2nd reading which is merely a indication of interest of support for the bill. The next stage is where amendments can be made and this is most relevant to the political declaration which accompanies the WA settlement.

This however has hit a road block due to the government recklessly and foolishly trying to push such an important and far reaching bill through in a ridiculous time frame, which no one could possibly give proper scrutiny to.

If Johnson wants a deal in the best int3of the country its an essential part of the process regardless of which side of the fence you sit. Failure to spot problems could leave us shafted by other countries later down the line.

The timetable is now under review and negotiation with Corbyn.

The extension with the EU:
The EU president has signaled he would support an extension. This is in part because issues in London mean it is highly unlikely the EU will be able to ratify a deal by next Thursday even if they have an emergency meeting. It's in their interests to extend in some way.

Going along with the Benn Act is the politically least risky option, though France are making growling noises about it.

Two issues spring up with this. The first is the issue of the UK having no EU Commissioner after 1st Nov and the second is the EU budget runs until 31st Dec 2019.

The Queens Speech:
The government as it stands might struggle to pass the QS especially with the DUP off side. It failing to pass is, in some ways, a good thing for Johnson. The speech was essentially a manifesto and blocking it is a good electioneering strategy. It also puts pressure on the opposition for a Vote of No Confidence.

There are already rumblings following the passing of the 2nd reading of the WAB and the EU signally they are open to an extension that some in Labour (including crucially Corbyn) do think they must agree to a GE in the autumn.

A Vonc is still unlikely to happen until the EU formalise the extension and the EU are unlikely to do this until its clear what Johnson's next move with the WAB is. Johnson meanwhile doesn't want to agree to a longer timetable as that ruins his do or die speech and facilitates an extension. So expect some brinkmanship over timings here. We might not get a formal extension approved until the wire.

The GE:
All Brexit is currently about is manoeuvring to win the next GE. It must be seen in this context.

Polling suggests that an extension without the WA is bad for Johnson and he is likely to lose support to the Brexit Party. There is an ever shrinking likelihood of the WA going through before 31st Oct, if its not impossible already. Thus Johnson needs to see if he can get the WA through very quickly after an extension but before a GE.

This reasonably lines up with Labour's problems. Before the WA goes through a GE looks bad for them with them haemorrhaging support to the LDs and the the Brexit Party.

If they are seen to facilitate the WA passing before an election then there may also be a sense of betrayal amongst their majority remain supporters but it might let them off with the Brexit Party threat particularly in the Midlands.

Meanwhile the SNP have an increasing desire for a GE. They look like they will clean up in Scotland and it might be their last chance now to stop Brexit. Similar logic applies to the LDs.

Thus the chances of a GE shoot up once an extension is granted, but the Cons and Labour have a mutual self interest in getting a deal done ASAP before a GE in many ways.

This of course would probably suit the French and therefore the EU.

Which is why a deal before 15th Nov and by the 15th Dec, isnt unrealistic. A GE might come before Christmas but I think both the Cons and Lab have something of an interest in letting the dust settle and getting new messaging in to head off threats from the LDs and Brexit Party. I'd be more inclined to say a Feb election tbh.

Anyway things may have changed since I started typing this up given how quickly things are moving.

But despite the headlines that Brexit is in pergortory it is now slowly rolling forward and now has some momentum behind it.

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Thread gallery
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BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 13:56

Donald Tuskk@eucopresident*

In my phone call with PM @BorisJohnson
I gave reasons why I’m recommending the EU27 accept the UK request for an extension.

bellinisurge · 23/10/2019 13:57

Thank you Red.
At least it seems like my family trip to Ireland won't be during our departure from the EU.
Or will it .....Confused
Like Zaphod Beeblebrox my heads hurts.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 23/10/2019 13:59

a forecast was asked for... Finally something I understand on the westminstenders threads. Grin

I'm afraid it's too early, but at the moment it looks more likely to be mild, wet and unsettled rather than cold in December. I think in terms of disruption think more potential for flooding and severe gales, rather than potential for snow and ice.

borntobequiet · 23/10/2019 14:00

Posted on the previous thread but placemarking by posting again here, thanks Red as always.

Went out for my lunchtime constitutional and ended up sitting on a wall with a builder on his lunch break, discussing Brexit. (As I walked by he looked up from his phone and said "What do you think of this Brexit rubbish?" I said I thought it was shit and that our PM was a lying, duplicitous bastard.) Anyway. Apparently he and everyone he knows think that we are in a terrible state and that it's all the fault of the Conservatives but JC and Labour haven't helped and neither have all the other politicians. People in his business and (eg) in the aerospace industry are worried for the future and so on and so on. I'm mentioning it because it's the first spontaneous convo I've had with a stranger about Brexit and it wasn't one I expected, especially in the city where I work.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 23/10/2019 14:01

btw. I never get my forecasts from the media.

TheMShip · 23/10/2019 14:02

That's encouraging, born. I like hearing these stories from outside the bubble.

Saw this:

Polish Europe Minister Konrad Szymański rejects
@DKShrewsbury's letter asking for a Polish veto on Brexit extension, telling me categorically that 'no deal Brexit is not in the Polish interest and we will have no part in this'

prettybird · 23/10/2019 14:02

Cat cooried in to the crook of my legs, picture taken early this morning in preparation for the new thread Wink

Justanotherposter - I was away at an NHS Management course in the Lake District in 1992 (good example of why postal votes are always worth having Wink). All of us on the course (for aspiring high level managers, who'd been brought in from industry) were devastated at the result Sad.

Two days later I ran the London Marathon, breaking 4 hours (the best of the 3 marathons I ran). Smile

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living
AutumnCrow · 23/10/2019 14:03

@BigChoc, thanks. I cannot fathom how there haven't been major, successful challenges to the Universal Credit working protocols yet under the Equality Act 2010 re disability discrimination. (Similar to the PIP mobility High Court ruling Dec 2017.)

Sorry to derail. But I think it's worrying how this kind of Thatcherian stuff, that she could only push through after a landslide, is happening now under a minority government.

Dontlickthetrolley · 23/10/2019 14:03

PMK thanks Red

Gin Gin Gin Gin

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 14:05

www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/boris-johnson-top-team-war-election
Boris Johnson's Top Team Is At War Over Whether To Push For An Election

The prime minister's chief aide Dominic Cummings is behind the renewed drive for an election, but other senior aides, cabinet ministers and Tory MPs are opposed.

Sam Coates Sky@samcoatessky
Fascinating piece by @alexwickham on Downing Street tensions...

"Asked whether they accepted different views between Cummings and other senior advisers on whether to have an election, a No10 source allied to Cummings did not dispute the characterisation."

OP posts:
Grinchly · 23/10/2019 14:05

I've got a carpenter in today putting up some (more) bookshelves.

He noticed my little EU flag fluttering forlornly in my window box, and said how pleased he was to see it, and we had a long remainy discussion.

He said he was half considering putting ' will only work for remainers 'on his adverts!

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 14:07

btw. I never get my forecasts from the media.

What are you trying to say about media sensationalism and regular reliability of annual bullshittery?

Snowmeggedon forecast is scheduled in before just before Poppymania and Black Friday Crapness.

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RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 14:09

Alex Wickham@alexwickham
đź’Ą One senior minister told BuzzFeed News they personally doubted whether Johnson himself wanted an election before Brexit

Yes of course. Too risky for him.

See OP....

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DGRossetti · 23/10/2019 14:11

Polish Europe Minister Konrad Szymański rejects @DKShrewsbury's letter asking for a Polish veto on Brexit extension, telling me categorically that 'no deal Brexit is not in the Polish interest and we will have no part in this'

Interesting (and welcome). You'd think there would be some red-faced Brexiteers around right now, as some were telling us this was a given ...

FMFL · 23/10/2019 14:12

PMK

JustAnotherPoster00 · 23/10/2019 14:15

Evolve Politics
@evolvepolitics
·
5m
Imagine Remain won 52-48 in the 2016 Referendum.

Then imagine numerous Tory MPs defected to join Farage in a new Brexit Party.

Then imagine they won a General Election and enacted Brexit without holding another referendum.

This is what Lib Dems want to do, but with Remain.

TokyoSushi · 23/10/2019 14:16

PMK - thanks!!

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 14:19

I've just spotted MN Brexit research.

If you havent seen, go look.

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TheMShip · 23/10/2019 14:19

Just if they won a GE on that manifesto they would have a mandate to do so. Sucks, and we'd fight it, but it's true.

DGRossetti · 23/10/2019 14:20

Which is why a deal before 15th Nov and by the 15th Dec, isnt unrealistic. A GE might come before Christmas but I think both the Cons and Lab have something of an interest in letting the dust settle and getting new messaging in to head off threats from the LDs and Brexit Party. I'd be more inclined to say a Feb election tbh.

I'm wondering how much of the Tory party wants to go into a Boris-led election ? He'll always have his party faithful of course. But considering the hype and hope that preceded his coronation, there must be some MPs and candidates who are worried he's hardly set a stellar agenda. Bluster can get you so far, but another 5 months of him either blathering at the despatch box or just not turning up at all aren't going to sell Tory to the people it needs to sell to.

And if we are resigned (and I use that word very carefully) to a February election (Ted Heath, anyone ?) then why not wait a couple more months - or even 4 more months and dump Boris before fighting one.

I'm guessing backstage at Tory Towers there is a delicate guessing game going on where some people are wondering whether to continue backing Boris, or learn about the sunk costs fallacy.

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 14:22

Lewis Goodall@lewis_goodall
Speaking to a few Labour shad ministers, seems to be increasing acceptance election is coming but a) extension must be copper bottomed b) so PM cannot not engage in dirty tricks to get no deal: "There’s a difference between an extension and and absolute guarantee of no deal.'

Tom Newton Dunn@tnewtondunn
An MP tells me Boris Johnson has just spent quite a while working the Commons tea room, and even sat down at a table to talk to one of the Rebel 21. Not the actions of a PM who doesn’t think he needs this Parliament any more.

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flouncyfanny · 23/10/2019 14:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WhatwouldScoobyDoo · 23/10/2019 14:23

PMK - thank you, Red

DGRossetti · 23/10/2019 14:23

@evolvepolitics

The problem with your amusing - and facile - "analysis", is that it assumes a vote for the status quo, and a vote against it are equivalent. And they're not.

So once you understand that (possibly before you learned to write, it's that simple) you understand why you are talking what is called in the trade "bollocks", or "the full Morgan".

And no - @FoxNews, not even if you paid for that either.

flouncyfanny · 23/10/2019 14:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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