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Brexit

Westminstenders: What hangs in the balance?

965 replies

RedToothBrush · 26/09/2019 08:16

Yellow Hammer (and Black Swan if it exists) and other documents the government itself has produced are our truths and our evidence.

I look to Thomas Jefferson quotes in trying to defend liberal democracy.

His most famous of quotes is

Thomas Jefferson was the principal author of the Declaration of Independence. The Declaration states, “We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness….”

Self evident truths. These are the bedrock of democracy.

There are many more quotes from Jefferson which talk about the shining beacon of truth and the threats to liberty from falsehoods and those who tell them.

He argued that when the power of the state is used to avoid scrutiny we should be worried and afraid. As a leader he should never be afraid of the truth, because the truth always exists and you can only merely hide it before it makes itself apparent anyway.

“The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government.”

Today I feel the need to dust off old Jefferson for my own sanity and to remind myself of what matters. Jefferson helps me focus on dangers and how you fight back. It always comes back to exposure to the truth - how do you work to expose this (and the role of journalism in this)

Seek the truth. Talk the truth. Even if that means being self critical and humble in admitting your mistakes and errors.

It is not your identity as Leaver, Remainer, Tory, Labour, LDer, SNPer, woman, man, English, Northern Irish, Scottish, Welsh or European right now.

These identities are harming us, by making us look at the wrong thing rather than see the real danger facing us. They divide us whilst they conquer us.

What you should be focusing on NOW is your commitment to democracy in the face of someone in power actively and explicity saying the rule of law does not matter and the courts are wrong. That is advocating mob rule.

Johnson stood and said threats to MPs were humbug. And refused to moderate his language despite so many (mainly female) MPs saying the threats they received were extremely serious (remembering we've even had a prosecution for a plot to kill Rosie Cooper as well as other successful prosecutions for threats to MPs)

This is where we are at.

Focus on it.

No Deal Brexit and the future of liberal democracy in this country are indivisible and inseparable. They are entwined by the rule of law.

Brexit is NOT in of itself a threat to liberal democracy. It is HOW we leave that is.

I wish this was being said and emphasised concisely and cleanly.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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NoWordForFluffy · 26/09/2019 08:18

Despairing PMK.

Thanks, Red.

Hoooo · 26/09/2019 08:22

Weary pmk

NotJustACigar · 26/09/2019 08:22

Pmk thank you Red.

BuckingFrolics · 26/09/2019 08:24

[lurking pmk]

IDontBelieveYou · 26/09/2019 08:26

PMK

AwdBovril · 26/09/2019 08:26

PMK. Thanks, Red.

ClashCityRocker · 26/09/2019 08:26

Pmk.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 26/09/2019 08:30

I had a good cry last night over the memory of Jo Cox and what this country is becoming, still a bit low so a teary PMK from me

Inniu · 26/09/2019 08:35

Does Johnson want to be ousted so badly that he would prefer a Government of National Unity to having to ask for an extension.

yolofish · 26/09/2019 08:41

pmk, missed yesterdays hoc events but caught up via last thread. What fresh hell is this? comes to mind.

Octonaught · 26/09/2019 08:42

Pmk
As mentioned on previous thread, watching Bojo display narcissistic rage, and the chilling soothing tones when discussing Jo Cox, just has me in despair.
Going to email my MP today. She has a huge Tory majority, in a Leave constituency, but as a non white, woman, hopefully she will connect to something humane.

BoreOfWhabylon · 26/09/2019 08:43

Thank you Red

DGRossetti · 26/09/2019 08:44

.

LizzieSiddal · 26/09/2019 08:46

Thanks Red.

Belindabelle · 26/09/2019 08:48

I am feeling shell shocked this morning. Too much of this shit is bad for my mental health. I need a good long walk and a day away from this I think.

borntobequiet · 26/09/2019 08:49

Thanks once again Red, to you especially but also to everyone else whose detailed analysis and well argued contributions have been so helpful certainly to me and I suspect to many many others who read but have not (yet) posted. Lurkers arise and make yourselves known!

borntobequiet · 26/09/2019 08:50

or emerge might be a better word. We don't want an insurrection of lurkers.

needtogiveitablow · 26/09/2019 08:53

Been lurking for some time now! Finding all of this absolutely horrifying and no one around me seems to care - the feeling seems to be that we are so far removed from the life of politicians that it isn't affecting us Confused the reality is the chickens are coming home to roost now and feels too late to do anything other than hold on tight! (Too many cliches but too early to think rationally)

JustAnotherPoster00 · 26/09/2019 08:55

Brendan Cox
@MrBrendanCox
·
18m
Thank you for everyone’s kindness today. I’m back to the school run now and not doing any more interviews for a bit. About to tell the kids about the debate so it doesn’t surprise them if someone mentions it. Not sure where to start.

And that just set me off again ffs

MockersthefeMANist · 26/09/2019 08:55

You can catch-up James Cleverly on R4 Today soon:

Mishal: Is it acceptable for the PM to use words like betrayal?
Cleverly: He did not say betrayal
Mishal: He said, "I will not betray the voters...."
Cleverly: That's betray, not betrayal, it's totally different.

(And she said, words like betrayal.)

bookbook · 26/09/2019 08:56

a lurker here , apart from a very rare post .
I will once again write to my MP - a died in the wool Brexiteer , who I despise . I had given up , as he just brushes off with all the usual claptrap of 'will of the people ' etc.

wheresmymojo · 26/09/2019 08:58

A cheerier poll. Not sure if already shared.

Westminster poll:

CON: 27% (-2)
LAB: 24% (-)
LDEM: 22% (+4)
BREX: 16% (-1)

via @Survation

This result marks Survation's highest score for the Liberal Democrats in nearly a decade, confirming the huge surge in support for the party since their pledge to revoke Article 50.

boatyardblues · 26/09/2019 08:59

Great OP Red. Thanks again for keeping us all on track and reminding us what matters.

Re BoJo, I am frequently reminded of Maya Angelou’s words: when someone shows you who they are, believe them. It’s not like there wasn’t abundant evidence in the public domain that he is an awful human being.

Violetparis · 26/09/2019 09:00

I think Boris knows he is cornered by Parliament and like an animal cornered he is he is lashing out in a frenzy.

Violetparis · 26/09/2019 09:02

I think huge support for revoking Article 50 though understandable is also dangerous. I think we need compromise not more polarisation.