Westminstenders: What hangs in the balance?

[RedToothBrush]

Yellow Hammer (and Black Swan if it exists) and other documents the government itself has produced are our truths and our evidence.

I look to Thomas Jefferson quotes in trying to defend liberal democracy.

His most famous of quotes is

Thomas Jefferson was the principal author of the Declaration of Independence. The Declaration states, “We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness….”

Self evident truths. These are the bedrock of democracy.

There are many more quotes from Jefferson which talk about the shining beacon of truth and the threats to liberty from falsehoods and those who tell them.

He argued that when the power of the state is used to avoid scrutiny we should be worried and afraid. As a leader he should never be afraid of the truth, because the truth always exists and you can only merely hide it before it makes itself apparent anyway.

“The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government.”

Today I feel the need to dust off old Jefferson for my own sanity and to remind myself of what matters. Jefferson helps me focus on dangers and how you fight back. It always comes back to exposure to the truth - how do you work to expose this (and the role of journalism in this)

Seek the truth. Talk the truth. Even if that means being self critical and humble in admitting your mistakes and errors.

It is not your identity as Leaver, Remainer, Tory, Labour, LDer, SNPer, woman, man, English, Northern Irish, Scottish, Welsh or European right now.

These identities are harming us, by making us look at the wrong thing rather than see the real danger facing us. They divide us whilst they conquer us.

What you should be focusing on NOW is your commitment to democracy in the face of someone in power actively and explicity saying the rule of law does not matter and the courts are wrong. That is advocating mob rule.

Johnson stood and said threats to MPs were humbug. And refused to moderate his language despite so many (mainly female) MPs saying the threats they received were extremely serious (remembering we've even had a prosecution for a plot to kill Rosie Cooper as well as other successful prosecutions for threats to MPs)

This is where we are at.

Focus on it.

No Deal Brexit and the future of liberal democracy in this country are indivisible and inseparable. They are entwined by the rule of law.

Brexit is NOT in of itself a threat to liberal democracy. It is HOW we leave that is.

I wish this was being said and emphasised concisely and cleanly.

It's not a frenzy. It's a strategy. He wants to "Throw rocks and lsiten for the gratifying sound" as he once said. He wants to provoke them into a No Confidence motion which he wants to lose so he can call an election with Oct 31 during the campaign when parliament is dissolved and there are no MPs.

It’ll be interesting to see how Johnson’s performance last night affects the polls.

Maybe Mockers though I don't understand why he thinks that strategy would work.

PMK

...Because Cummings told him it would work.

Thank you Red. I feel sick.

And women still vote Tory despite it being clear that in Tory pecking order, they are below their abusers.

pmk

Thanks RTB - your OP is spot on.

Weary marking my place.

Sadly, I had said to dh yesterday morning when I was watching footage of Gina Miller leaving the Supreme Court that I feared someone being murdered in the near future

The disgrace that was last night in Parliament only made that fear stronger

IDS now on Sky News defending what happened and saying it was "just politics" and that the "other side" were just as bad and were the pot calling the kettle black

I can't watch any more

Not sure the cat picture is enough to reduce my blood pressure

Maybe I missed it - but did anyone pick up on this on Robert Peston's Twitter? twitter.com/Peston/status/1176829346826338304
He's not prone to capitalisation, so that part is presumably a direct quote from source info.

BREAKING: Important clarification from senior government source of what Attorney General meant when he said @BorisJohnson would abide by Benn Act, that compels him in absence of a Brexit deal to write letter to EU requesting Brexit delay. Government source: “We will ‘comply’ with Benn Act IF and only if it is triggered (which it may not be, if there is a deal). That is NOT the same as ‘the PM will ask for a delay’! HOW we comply with the Benn Act is the real question, and also what would be in our SECOND letter”. In other words Johnson still believes he can lawfully render the Benn Act nul and void, presumably by sending a second letter that would dissuade the EU from granting a delay. Lady Hale and the Supreme Court look set to be back in action before the end of October adjudicating on another momentous dispute between PM and parliament. Unless that is MPs become persuaded that the only safe way to avoid no deal on 31 October would be to remove and replace Johnson as prime minister.

@JolyonMaugham
Jo Maugham QC
Cast iron nonsense.

1. The law is not so stupid that whilst requiring you to do x it will also permit you to do y that undermines x.

1. It rests on the (ridiculous) predicate that the EU doesn't know Johnson's views on an extension and will be guided by them.

Too miserable to post a cute picture to placemark.

I think like many remainers I could acceptif not like a good deal - one that respected citizens rights, the GFA and tried to maintain the economy. But this rush to leave at all costs?
There must be another agenda- I have always said "follow the money" - the new tax rules from the EU and disaster capitalism must be part of it. Plus a terrifying shift to the far right.
I don't recognise the UK any more.

This is one of my glimmers of hope. Could the new leader bounce be ending?

Stephen Bush
@stephenkb
·
15m
👇🏾 A lot of people talking about how the Court judgement helps Johnson. But evidence from all polls suggests the opposite.
Quote Tweet

Mike Smithson
@MSmithsonPB
· 54m
YouGov/Times poll find 33% believe that the PM is competent down from 41% three weeks ago. Those describing him as "strong" down from 52% to 46%

Boris has no interest in uniting the nation and parliament behind a deal. His main goal is to stoke up anger and divisions and win over the Brexit party voters. His sickening performance last night was straight from the Trump/ Farage playbook. This is all about winning a GE.

Pmk

Sadly though RTB it seems that your sensible plea to rise above simple Leave/Remain identities and look at the bigger picture will fall on deaf ears - of, dare I say it, Leavers.

I was looking at other recent threads on MN about BlowJob's behaviour, and so far it seems the Venn diagram of people thinking his behaviour is fiiiiiine and people who support Brexit is a circle. Of course, they add extra words for justification like "Parliament frustrating the Willy", or "both sides", etc.

Thanks red

Another long-time lurker emerging to say thank you to all of the regular posters for demystifying and simplifying things for me. Like someone else a couple of threads ago I no longer bother with many news and media sites but come straight here for the latest. Like many others I'm very weary and scared for what comes next after the last few weeks and last night especially. I listened to Brendan Cox this morning in the car in tears and have written to my MP - although I can't see it doing any good at all as it's Jake Berry . Watching with interest and no small amount of trepidation.............

PMK with gratitude to the thread’s doyens and with horror at the state of our democracy.

Another mostly-lurker checking in.

I've emailed my MP and urged others to do the same.

Sicker and angrier than ever this morning.

Thanks Red and all regular posters.

I'm viewing the FTPA as a bear trap now. It's caught a zombie PM, who is thrashing around but can't spring free. I'm guessing that a lot of strategy was predicated upon how things used to be (after all, that's all there is to go on) and the New World Order has stymied team Boris. Who should have been paying closer attention to team Theresa, rather than just trying to oust her - since she managed to avoid this situation over the course of 2 years.

Not quite sure where we go from here, but I think the FTPA needs to be understood back to front, inside out, and to the last comma.

I imagine there's also a lot of frantic backroom work at the palace trying to ensure the Queen (and it's hard not to recall watching the clips of Hindenburg recently ...) is as far away from these shenanigans as possible.

If appear slightly obsessed by our liege sovereign, it's in part due to a sense of being cheated/patronised/insulted all these years, and also in part because right now, the very worst thing that could happen would be a change of Monarch. There's a very good argument to be made for a period of Regency. And before anyone accuses me of being ridiculous, I'm not the country that still has a Queen ....

Lovely to see all the lurkers de-lurking :)

UQ on use of language

Issue of CROSS PARTY concern.

Bercow stressing not to treat it as a tribal issue.

Chamber surprisely full for 9.40am