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Brexit

Westminstenders: What hangs in the balance?

965 replies

RedToothBrush · 26/09/2019 08:16

Yellow Hammer (and Black Swan if it exists) and other documents the government itself has produced are our truths and our evidence.

I look to Thomas Jefferson quotes in trying to defend liberal democracy.

His most famous of quotes is

Thomas Jefferson was the principal author of the Declaration of Independence. The Declaration states, “We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness….”

Self evident truths. These are the bedrock of democracy.

There are many more quotes from Jefferson which talk about the shining beacon of truth and the threats to liberty from falsehoods and those who tell them.

He argued that when the power of the state is used to avoid scrutiny we should be worried and afraid. As a leader he should never be afraid of the truth, because the truth always exists and you can only merely hide it before it makes itself apparent anyway.

“The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government.”

Today I feel the need to dust off old Jefferson for my own sanity and to remind myself of what matters. Jefferson helps me focus on dangers and how you fight back. It always comes back to exposure to the truth - how do you work to expose this (and the role of journalism in this)

Seek the truth. Talk the truth. Even if that means being self critical and humble in admitting your mistakes and errors.

It is not your identity as Leaver, Remainer, Tory, Labour, LDer, SNPer, woman, man, English, Northern Irish, Scottish, Welsh or European right now.

These identities are harming us, by making us look at the wrong thing rather than see the real danger facing us. They divide us whilst they conquer us.

What you should be focusing on NOW is your commitment to democracy in the face of someone in power actively and explicity saying the rule of law does not matter and the courts are wrong. That is advocating mob rule.

Johnson stood and said threats to MPs were humbug. And refused to moderate his language despite so many (mainly female) MPs saying the threats they received were extremely serious (remembering we've even had a prosecution for a plot to kill Rosie Cooper as well as other successful prosecutions for threats to MPs)

This is where we are at.

Focus on it.

No Deal Brexit and the future of liberal democracy in this country are indivisible and inseparable. They are entwined by the rule of law.

Brexit is NOT in of itself a threat to liberal democracy. It is HOW we leave that is.

I wish this was being said and emphasised concisely and cleanly.

OP posts:
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ListeningQuietly · 27/09/2019 18:46

tobee
Mandy is keeping a low profile because Private Eye and the Economist and the Grauniad have been looking into some of his deeply unsavoury PR clients

Grinchly · 27/09/2019 20:10

prttybird

Re Corbyn, - and I emphasise IANA Dr, nor an optician.

His right eye looks odd. He has a super heavy lens, not noticed before.

But then Cummings also looks ill to me, so what do I know.

cherin · 27/09/2019 23:04

Catching up
@MockersthefeMANist
I also like, 'Would you trust them with the school hamster over the holidays?'

I can just see BJ putting Fluffy in the tumble dryer for a laugh.

Ahahahahahahahaha! Definitely!!
I saw Corbyn a few times in real life. I can’t understand half of what he says because he mumbles, but he looks and sounds very normal in gardening attire. Like one that wears a 20years old t-shirt and very scruffy slacks to go and turn the compost heap, talking about wildlife in gardens. Very normal. I wonder if BJ has ever picked up the puppy’s poo....

prettybird · 27/09/2019 23:13

Grinchly - it was indeed something to do with the way one of the lenses in his glasses has changed (is changing?)

Random18 · 27/09/2019 23:27

You think £80k a year is a lot for the job he does?

Random18 · 27/09/2019 23:27

Completely wrong post 🙈 it's the wine ........

mathanxiety · 28/09/2019 03:27

Cabinet minister warns Britain will erupt in violence and rioting if Brexit is not delivered
DM headline.

Utterly scurrilous.

mathanxiety · 28/09/2019 03:35

Cooper and Starmer are Red Tories as far... blah blah blah

Again with the 'Red', CendrilllionSings.

You must think people here are really stoopid.

Socksontheradiator · 28/09/2019 09:32

I don't think Corbyn mumbles. I've not met him but always think he sounds clear and strong in his speeches.
BJ is the one who's speech I sometimes struggle with as he drops off at the end of his sentences. The public school bluster that assumes you get the picture so no need to finish the sentence.

prettybird · 28/09/2019 09:41

That's a good description socks

cherin · 28/09/2019 09:59

(I meant he mumbled when he spoke to me in RL...but then we were not exactly having long conversations, so it would not be very representative. One thing he did was listening....without interrupting and not with the intent to retort....which it’s more than I would expect from anyone, these days!!)

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 28/09/2019 09:59

I also think Corbyn is unwell. When I saw pictures of him at the conference I was shocked. He seemed much older in some way. I can’t put my finger on what it was.

Cummings put off surgery to advise Boris so he is probably managing a health problem too.

Socksontheradiator · 28/09/2019 10:13

Cherin I realised that's what you meant, sorry, that's why I said I've not met him (I also have a habit of assuming people know what I mean Blush)
His listening skills are why I like him, I think. I hope he isn't unwell.

JeSuisPoulet · 28/09/2019 10:25

I'm so behind! I got as far as @borntobequiet saying increase in redundancies and have to say 3 people I know have taken voluntary redundancy in the last month! I was a bit confused as they are all different sectors, but it seems belt tightening is going on all around here in Kent at any rate.

Think I annoyed my Nigerian friend yesterday as she was talking about Naga and I said I thought it was a by-product of Brexit and tolerance of giving both sides of an argument rather than simply knowing racism is illegal and the pit we've allowed society to fall into by normalising racism... She went quiet and said she thought racism was an issue by itself and it was thoughtless to say it only happens because of Brexit. A lot of back peddling but found it oddly hard to explain my meaning without coming across as a Brexit obsessed loon Sad. It's fine as we've known each other since we were 6 but I think I need to be careful not to put everything into the Brexit Box of Bollocks Britain. I forget sometimes people aren't following it as closely in RL!

Off to see puppy tomorrow so will pmk on a new thread with a picture Smile

Tanith · 28/09/2019 17:59

Cabinet minister warns Britain will erupt in violence and rioting if Brexit is not delivered

What - this lot??!

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