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Brexit

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2019 19:45

Tuesday is the big day about prorogation.

The Supreme Court hears the case of Cherry and Miller against the government.

This could test the constitution and the union. The Supreme Court sits as both as a Scottish Court and and English Court and applies Scottish / English law accordingly. And there are differences. It is possible that prorogation might only be illegal under one or the other but would have effect on parliament. Or its possible that the Supreme Court might decide to uphold the government position.

What is encouraging is the constitutional expert blogs which suggest that they lean to the court intervening. It's important that for the A50 case the Supreme Court referenced the arguments in these blogs.

But let's not get too carried away.

As it is Joe Moor, former director of legislative affairs at 10 Downing Street wrote in today's Telegraph that Johnson could merely prorogue again from Oct 14 "until at least Nov 6" thus preventing parliamentary scrutiny of no deal which would help enable in effect illegally. The Times also reported Cummings as having said this to advisors.

This has been dismissed by legal experts, but the point remains there is a willingness to both frustrate parliament and be as obstructive as possible in the days leading up to 31st.

There is also the 'Nobile Officium' Court action designed to stop illegal no deal by allowing the courts to write a letter to the EU to request an extension of Johnson refuses to.

It remains to be seen if it has even a chance of success.

The British press has been full of comments of optimism for a deal this weekend. This is after there was positive noises in a similar vein from Brussels. These has since been largely dismissed as mere political will with no practical progress. The British optimism has also been dismissed as mere posturing. And Priti Patel "misspoke" when she appeared to suggest that no deal was no policy this morning.

Other rumours include the French willing to grant a 2year extension but not a 3month one out of fear this will happen repeatedly. The French are now pushing for a deal and relaxing their approach as such (but Germany won't compromise the single market and Ireland the GFA so its all talk).

And do not forget, for all the talk of a deal there are certain time restrains.

Apparently Nikki da Costa has a timetable to get a deal through parliament in 'just ten days' on a spreadsheet. So that gives you an idea that the 19th October is possibly the last day to get a deal in front of parliament if you completely accept that we are leaving without any extension. This neglects the issue that a new deal isn't on the table from the EU and the backstop isn't going anywhere.

A last minute deal or no deal situation is highly risky with the ERG on one side and hard core Remainers who think Johnson won't defy the Benn Amendment and thus will try and block a deal to the last

It seems that we will have a game of cat and mouse until the bitter end.

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flouncyfanny · 16/09/2019 07:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MarshaBradyo · 16/09/2019 07:06

Pmk

NoWordForFluffy · 16/09/2019 07:08

Flouncy, you can see some from space, I reckon. I'm sure you get a blinding warm glow inside the house too! 😂

Oh, and this idiot really has provided the press with a photo for every possible story, hasn't he?

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy
flouncyfanny · 16/09/2019 07:08

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

flouncyfanny · 16/09/2019 07:11

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TheMShip · 16/09/2019 07:13

Predictions thread

Moving fast again, everyone up early? Maybe today will be that rarest of things, a politically quiet day. (Hollow laughter....)

NoWordForFluffy · 16/09/2019 07:21

If I'm suffering, then I think it's only fair to share my pain, flouncy! 🤷‍♀️😂

I'm not sure why your neighbours decorate in those circs, mind you. How odd! 🎅🏻🎄🎅🏻🎄🎅🏻🎄

Basilpots · 16/09/2019 07:27

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/2-5-in-praise-of-politics/id318705261?i=1000439928446

Opinion from Lord Sumption who was once a judge sitting in the Supreme Court on UK having a written constitution.

This was written and recorded pre Johnson, things have changed.

fedup21 · 16/09/2019 07:31

So he's telling the EU he will not accept any extension that is offered. Completely disregarding the parliamentary vote. What is going on?

Who will actually stop him doing exactly what he wants though?

NoWordForFluffy · 16/09/2019 07:37

He's trying to goad a VoNC, so he gets his GE before the no deal effects are felt. He's painting himself into a corner that I'm not sure he really wants to be in! But that's tough shit.

NoWordForFluffy · 16/09/2019 07:38

Though as he's prorogued Parliament, all his goading is getting nowhere, as it can't! I wonder if he's also regretting that?

flouncyfanny · 16/09/2019 07:38

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Hoooo · 16/09/2019 07:39

Morning.

Well.

What fresh hell will this week bring!?

chomalungma · 16/09/2019 07:42

I think he is bluffing about the loophole.

Making himself look strong when he is weak (and all that)

There must be lots of lawyers who have studied the Act and the linked acts in great detail and who have tried to find a loophole.

flouncyfanny · 16/09/2019 07:42

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chomalungma · 16/09/2019 07:45

If the SCOTUK find against the govt, what is to stop him going back to Queenie and doing the whole thing again for a 2nd (longer) prorogation immediately

The Queen herself?

Myriade · 16/09/2019 07:48

PMK

NoWordForFluffy · 16/09/2019 07:53

I'm not sure I'd want to goad / piss the Queen off that much. But then I respect the law and the constitutional practices in this country (plus, professionally, my first duty is to the Court, so I tend to be mindful of that in my daily life too!).

prettybird · 16/09/2019 08:02

NoWordforFluffy - I'd said 11 out of the 12 last night and got told by dh that it was 9 out 10, so that's what I wrote in my post. Should have trusted my own memory! Grin

NoWordForFluffy · 16/09/2019 08:09

It was initially 9, then upped!

prettybird · 16/09/2019 08:16

I had an argument discussion with dh, because I said that there were 12 Supreme Court judges and he overruled me, saying that there were 10 Wink Should have stood my ground Grin

prettybird · 16/09/2019 08:19

Just told dh that I was right and he was wrong Wink - and he's expressed concern about the number of Scottish Law Lords Hmm

boatyardblues · 16/09/2019 08:19

Get the jacket! It sounds like an appropriate antidote to the current situation.

I treated myself to some expensive Tom Ford fragrance last winter on the basis that, if we were going to be pitched into penury and recession, it might be my last chance for a while.

Hoooo · 16/09/2019 08:23

I've beem buying books and perfume in profligate fashion....

It may be my last hurrah :(

OublietteBravo · 16/09/2019 08:38

PMK