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Brexit

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2019 19:45

Tuesday is the big day about prorogation.

The Supreme Court hears the case of Cherry and Miller against the government.

This could test the constitution and the union. The Supreme Court sits as both as a Scottish Court and and English Court and applies Scottish / English law accordingly. And there are differences. It is possible that prorogation might only be illegal under one or the other but would have effect on parliament. Or its possible that the Supreme Court might decide to uphold the government position.

What is encouraging is the constitutional expert blogs which suggest that they lean to the court intervening. It's important that for the A50 case the Supreme Court referenced the arguments in these blogs.

But let's not get too carried away.

As it is Joe Moor, former director of legislative affairs at 10 Downing Street wrote in today's Telegraph that Johnson could merely prorogue again from Oct 14 "until at least Nov 6" thus preventing parliamentary scrutiny of no deal which would help enable in effect illegally. The Times also reported Cummings as having said this to advisors.

This has been dismissed by legal experts, but the point remains there is a willingness to both frustrate parliament and be as obstructive as possible in the days leading up to 31st.

There is also the 'Nobile Officium' Court action designed to stop illegal no deal by allowing the courts to write a letter to the EU to request an extension of Johnson refuses to.

It remains to be seen if it has even a chance of success.

The British press has been full of comments of optimism for a deal this weekend. This is after there was positive noises in a similar vein from Brussels. These has since been largely dismissed as mere political will with no practical progress. The British optimism has also been dismissed as mere posturing. And Priti Patel "misspoke" when she appeared to suggest that no deal was no policy this morning.

Other rumours include the French willing to grant a 2year extension but not a 3month one out of fear this will happen repeatedly. The French are now pushing for a deal and relaxing their approach as such (but Germany won't compromise the single market and Ireland the GFA so its all talk).

And do not forget, for all the talk of a deal there are certain time restrains.

Apparently Nikki da Costa has a timetable to get a deal through parliament in 'just ten days' on a spreadsheet. So that gives you an idea that the 19th October is possibly the last day to get a deal in front of parliament if you completely accept that we are leaving without any extension. This neglects the issue that a new deal isn't on the table from the EU and the backstop isn't going anywhere.

A last minute deal or no deal situation is highly risky with the ERG on one side and hard core Remainers who think Johnson won't defy the Benn Amendment and thus will try and block a deal to the last

It seems that we will have a game of cat and mouse until the bitter end.

OP posts:
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RedToothBrush · 15/09/2019 19:52

PS

Fuck off Cameron. You are distracting from the important shit and are more likely to encourage softer leavers to double down.

OP posts:
bellinisurge · 15/09/2019 19:53

I agree Cameron should fuck off. I'm fully expecting the Supreme Court to side with the government .
Thank you , Red.

NoWordForFluffy · 15/09/2019 19:54

PMK.

Thanks, Red.

flouncyfanny · 15/09/2019 19:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 15/09/2019 19:57
Gin
Thereisalwayssomething · 15/09/2019 20:01

There was some talk today about a legal loophole in the bill today.

If a deal goes through then he can somehow no deal. Not being a legal expert at all it's all a bit too clever for me.

But I do hope they make sure its watertight even if it's simple an amendment to any deal that comes forward that if it passes the it has to bd enforced.

I do think the Scottish judgement should stand. But we'll see.

GeistohneGrenzen · 15/09/2019 20:01

PMK
thank you Red

DarkAtEndOfUK · 15/09/2019 20:02

PMK. I want to know if the Brexiteers would take it to the European courts, if the UK Supreme Court upholds the judgement Smile.

Grinchly · 15/09/2019 20:05

Peregrine Merlin Kite

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy
yolofish · 15/09/2019 20:05

Proroguing Manky Kunts (sorry, couldnt come up with anything vaguely witty for K...)

NoWordForFluffy · 15/09/2019 20:05

If he double prorogues, until Nov 6, the earliest GE is Dec 11. No deal chaos will be affecting people's Christmas planning / stocking up by that point. And hell hath no fury like the shopper who can't ram their trolley full of food at Christmas!

If he goes down this road, he's fucked. In fact, BoZo is fucked every which way. He literally CANNOT win. I wonder if he's sleeping well?! 😂

Lex234 · 15/09/2019 20:06

Makes you wonder if this is why Kinnock's amendment was "accidentally" passed

boatyardblues · 15/09/2019 20:07

Plain old skool PMK for me.

flouncyfanny · 15/09/2019 20:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lisette1940 · 15/09/2019 20:13

PMK. Ta muchly Red

Mistigri · 15/09/2019 20:15

And hell hath no fury like the shopper who can't ram their trolley full of food at Christmas!

This.

A deal is the only way out for Johnson. If the opposition can force a longish extension then IMO there is a rising chance that Brexit is toast.

BirdandSparrow · 15/09/2019 20:15

PMK

fedup21 · 15/09/2019 20:16

I'm fully expecting the Supreme Court to side with the government

I hope this doesn’t happen Sad

DuchessDumbarton · 15/09/2019 20:17

PMK - thanks Red. These threads are a fount of knowledge.

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2019 20:18

I am more optimistic about Tuesday than I was. But I still don't think that it's likely. Nor do I necessarily think it solves much either.

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TheCaddyisaBaddie · 15/09/2019 20:18

Pmk

fedup21 · 15/09/2019 20:20

If BJ does do a double prorogation, is there anything that can be done to stop him?

Hoooo · 15/09/2019 20:23

Pmk

chomalungma · 15/09/2019 20:28

If BJ does do a double prorogation, is there anything that can be done to stop him

The Queen? Charles?

Because what reason could he give?

ListeningQuietly · 15/09/2019 20:33

Pruned
My
Kitchen garden

so can cope with next week
(and my freezer is now full)

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