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Brexit

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2019 19:45

Tuesday is the big day about prorogation.

The Supreme Court hears the case of Cherry and Miller against the government.

This could test the constitution and the union. The Supreme Court sits as both as a Scottish Court and and English Court and applies Scottish / English law accordingly. And there are differences. It is possible that prorogation might only be illegal under one or the other but would have effect on parliament. Or its possible that the Supreme Court might decide to uphold the government position.

What is encouraging is the constitutional expert blogs which suggest that they lean to the court intervening. It's important that for the A50 case the Supreme Court referenced the arguments in these blogs.

But let's not get too carried away.

As it is Joe Moor, former director of legislative affairs at 10 Downing Street wrote in today's Telegraph that Johnson could merely prorogue again from Oct 14 "until at least Nov 6" thus preventing parliamentary scrutiny of no deal which would help enable in effect illegally. The Times also reported Cummings as having said this to advisors.

This has been dismissed by legal experts, but the point remains there is a willingness to both frustrate parliament and be as obstructive as possible in the days leading up to 31st.

There is also the 'Nobile Officium' Court action designed to stop illegal no deal by allowing the courts to write a letter to the EU to request an extension of Johnson refuses to.

It remains to be seen if it has even a chance of success.

The British press has been full of comments of optimism for a deal this weekend. This is after there was positive noises in a similar vein from Brussels. These has since been largely dismissed as mere political will with no practical progress. The British optimism has also been dismissed as mere posturing. And Priti Patel "misspoke" when she appeared to suggest that no deal was no policy this morning.

Other rumours include the French willing to grant a 2year extension but not a 3month one out of fear this will happen repeatedly. The French are now pushing for a deal and relaxing their approach as such (but Germany won't compromise the single market and Ireland the GFA so its all talk).

And do not forget, for all the talk of a deal there are certain time restrains.

Apparently Nikki da Costa has a timetable to get a deal through parliament in 'just ten days' on a spreadsheet. So that gives you an idea that the 19th October is possibly the last day to get a deal in front of parliament if you completely accept that we are leaving without any extension. This neglects the issue that a new deal isn't on the table from the EU and the backstop isn't going anywhere.

A last minute deal or no deal situation is highly risky with the ERG on one side and hard core Remainers who think Johnson won't defy the Benn Amendment and thus will try and block a deal to the last

It seems that we will have a game of cat and mouse until the bitter end.

OP posts:
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OhYouBadBadKitten · 15/09/2019 21:21

hurrah. bloody slow though
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3677475-Protests-against-the-Prorogation-of-Parliament

Protest thread.

IdiotInDisguise · 15/09/2019 21:26

Just placemarking, not much depth to bring into the discussion from me but love to read your comments.

DGRossetti · 15/09/2019 21:29

Had a chance to check out the RNLI story Sad

I've had to stop donating blood (after 73 donations - 50 of which were to neonates) ... shame I couldn't have stopped any of those bigots getting any.

Is this the second part of the plan now ? First blue passports, and then make people ashamed to hold one ?

Basilpots · 15/09/2019 21:31

I know DG can’t believe people think like that much less advertise the fact on a public platform for all to see.

chomalungma · 15/09/2019 21:40

I do think the RNLI story (and it's not the only UK based charity that works to help people in other countries) sums up where we are at the moment as a country.

I really hate the insularity of it all. There is a bigger picture than just the UK. We need to all work together to make the world a better place, instead of focusing just on our little island. I always saw part of the EU project a way of helping smaller, less developed countries within the EU develop more, become wealthier and become equal to us.

But we are being reduced to the Little England mentality.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/09/2019 21:43

Just as I was thinking BJ had cocked up everything h tried as PM but hadn't yet started a war .....

He's working on it
And against a much more powerful country

I wonder who gives the orders when it's US jets on a UK carrier that doesn't have its own ?

news.sky.com/story/china-threatens-military-response-if-uk-warships-go-near-disputed-islands-11805868

China has warned Britain against sailing ships through disputed waters in the South China Sea,
saying that such a move would be "hostile" and hinting that Beijing would be forced to responded militarily.

Reacting to a suggestion that the UK might send its aircraft carrier close to the contested Spratly Islands, with US jets onboard,
China's Ambassador to the UK said Britain "should not do this dirty job for somebody else".

DuchessDumbarton · 15/09/2019 21:57

On the RNLI, is it worth pointing out that it is a jointly run service between Britain and Ireland?
As in, while you are sinking at sea, you don't really care where the lifeboat appears from , as long as it appears.
And you are certainly not going to question whether the boat is funded by donations from an "approved" source.

tobee · 15/09/2019 22:12

Place marking and catching up on the threads, lurching like a drunk, one second feeling cheered that "Boris has fucked up everything" and "Brexit is toast!" And then back sailing in the doldrums that it's gonna be No Deal to the Max and an unavoidable double prorogation. Sad

Still it's going to be another fun week ahead. To top it all I'm scheduled for a root canal 🦷 treatment on Friday. Which now appears to be the pleasantest part of my week! Grin

yolofish · 15/09/2019 22:16

As a complete aside, does anyone know who that dreadful Michelle is on the Pledge on Sky News? Blonde hair, big glasses, she makes me want to stab pins in my/her eyes...

IrenetheQuaint · 15/09/2019 22:19

It's clear that Boris and Dom have a cunning wheeze that they hope will get them round the Benn Act, whether it's the loophole Jo Maugham has identified or something else.

Personally I'd rather not be in the power of a leader who loves a cunning wheeze - we're a modern western country, not an episode of Blackadder - but there we are.

Basilpots · 15/09/2019 22:21

Yolo is it Michelle Dewberry won The Apprentice a few years ago ??

yolofish · 15/09/2019 22:27

oh basil it could be? I dont watch the Apprentice, but god she really brings out my bad side...

BlackeyedGruesome · 15/09/2019 22:41

Thank you.

prettybird · 15/09/2019 22:53

Cat getting on with scratching his post and refusing to give a fuck Wink

This week is going to be really interesting. SCOTUK (Grin) is really on to a hiding to nothing whatever its decision Confused. Although BJ-Cummings' assertion that 31st October is still the deadline, Deal or no Deal, in advance of his meeting with Juncker and whatever the Benn legislation might say laws, where we're going, who needs LAWS?! , might actually help harden the resolve of the 9 Law Lords to defend the law (not that their resolve needs to be strengthen: as Law Lords they should be able to set aside emotion and be objective in their interpretation of the law in the different legal jurisdictions).

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy
TemporaryPermanent · 15/09/2019 22:55

PMK. Thank you Red.
Trying to imagine the outcome if the supreme court says the prorogation is illegal in Scotland but not justiciable, or actually legal, in England. It would seem a fine summary of the utter car crash of the last 3.5 years. Would the Scottish MPs only turn up at the HoC..?

JustAnotherPoster00 · 15/09/2019 23:03

PMK

JustAnotherPoster00 · 15/09/2019 23:05

Oh and to add the only ex PM I have any time for is John Major these days, no 1 is more shocked about that than me, damn you westminstenders infecting me with your insidious centrism Grin

Basilpots · 15/09/2019 23:07

Just Grin

TokyoSushi · 15/09/2019 23:14

PMK Thanks Red, I've taken a at o back from the madness for a few days but still keeping a gentle eye on events, before it all kicks off yet again on Tuesday.

I too expect the court to side with the government and we'll remain prorogued, let's see...

Peregrina · 15/09/2019 23:14

Cat getting on with scratching his post and refusing to give a fuck.

Clearly well trained on both counts. My dear departed cat refused to use the scratching post. Why do that when my furniture was there for the scratching? She did also like the door mat - a nice thick coir one.

prettybird · 15/09/2019 23:14

Thanks Justanotherposter00 Grin

Are you feeling ok? WinkHalo

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2019 23:14

Oh look war with Iran on the cards.

Whoopie.

That'll distract us from Brexshit.

Petrol prices will go through the roof.

Oh, wait hang what was that you said about petrol refineries being unprofitable in a no deal situation due to overproduction and then there being shortages due to strikes as 2000 people are laid off.

We can blame it all on Iran now.

OP posts:
Apileofballyhoo · 15/09/2019 23:15

insidious centrism Grin

Ta for the thread, Red.

prettybird · 15/09/2019 23:18

Peregrina - you can't see the stair steps in that photo Angry Cat scratching post got moved there to try to provide an alternative and distract them from the steps. All that's happened is that they have an additional source of scratching material - and now when we hear scratching on the middle landing, we shout at them to stop - and then look and see that they were scratching their post BlushConfused

Apileofballyhoo · 15/09/2019 23:19

Nothing like a war to distract the population.