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Brexit

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2019 19:45

Tuesday is the big day about prorogation.

The Supreme Court hears the case of Cherry and Miller against the government.

This could test the constitution and the union. The Supreme Court sits as both as a Scottish Court and and English Court and applies Scottish / English law accordingly. And there are differences. It is possible that prorogation might only be illegal under one or the other but would have effect on parliament. Or its possible that the Supreme Court might decide to uphold the government position.

What is encouraging is the constitutional expert blogs which suggest that they lean to the court intervening. It's important that for the A50 case the Supreme Court referenced the arguments in these blogs.

But let's not get too carried away.

As it is Joe Moor, former director of legislative affairs at 10 Downing Street wrote in today's Telegraph that Johnson could merely prorogue again from Oct 14 "until at least Nov 6" thus preventing parliamentary scrutiny of no deal which would help enable in effect illegally. The Times also reported Cummings as having said this to advisors.

This has been dismissed by legal experts, but the point remains there is a willingness to both frustrate parliament and be as obstructive as possible in the days leading up to 31st.

There is also the 'Nobile Officium' Court action designed to stop illegal no deal by allowing the courts to write a letter to the EU to request an extension of Johnson refuses to.

It remains to be seen if it has even a chance of success.

The British press has been full of comments of optimism for a deal this weekend. This is after there was positive noises in a similar vein from Brussels. These has since been largely dismissed as mere political will with no practical progress. The British optimism has also been dismissed as mere posturing. And Priti Patel "misspoke" when she appeared to suggest that no deal was no policy this morning.

Other rumours include the French willing to grant a 2year extension but not a 3month one out of fear this will happen repeatedly. The French are now pushing for a deal and relaxing their approach as such (but Germany won't compromise the single market and Ireland the GFA so its all talk).

And do not forget, for all the talk of a deal there are certain time restrains.

Apparently Nikki da Costa has a timetable to get a deal through parliament in 'just ten days' on a spreadsheet. So that gives you an idea that the 19th October is possibly the last day to get a deal in front of parliament if you completely accept that we are leaving without any extension. This neglects the issue that a new deal isn't on the table from the EU and the backstop isn't going anywhere.

A last minute deal or no deal situation is highly risky with the ERG on one side and hard core Remainers who think Johnson won't defy the Benn Amendment and thus will try and block a deal to the last

It seems that we will have a game of cat and mouse until the bitter end.

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DGRossetti · 18/09/2019 14:04

Boris the Mechanical Turk.

tobee · 18/09/2019 14:08

The tweets from people saying that it's because doctors let anyone be treated for free? That's absolute bollocks. For a start there was a whole episode of Hospital where a guy was employed by the hospital who had to go around with a card machine to take payments off people from abroad, and set up payment plans with them or their relatives. These were people lying in hospital beds and in intensive care etc.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 18/09/2019 14:09

Been off all day dealing with crap in real life that I can't blame on brexit. Seeing the Johnson clip has given me a real laugh. I'm pretty sure he forgot the hand movement while trying a Jedi mind trick 🤦‍♀️

DGRossetti · 18/09/2019 14:16

Who noticed Cummings mouth "twitch". Clearly he's too fly to be heard saying anything, but the repetition makes it clear it's a code.

Without the sound on (best way, if you want a top tip) the whole scene looks like a deleted scene from The Thick Of It.

DGRossetti · 18/09/2019 14:20

.

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy
thecatfromjapan · 18/09/2019 14:21

I have a feeling protoguing was supposed to allow Johnson to go on a kind of Roysl Progress, like Henry VIII, proceeding through the country, dazzling the little folk with his glory, impressing them with his might, bringing the splendour of too-distant political elites close & intimate, hearing - with kindness - their petty complaints and grievances.

And the media, denied stories of unedifying HoC tussles. Would be full of stories of Johnson charming the crowds, and pictures of Bonny children bearing him flowers, and frail old ladies, cheeks streaked with tears of tender joy.

I don't think this is going according to plan.

NotaRealLawyer · 18/09/2019 14:25

Aidan O'Neill QC "I'm not going to address what English law is about I'm here to address Scottish Law"
We are on Oliver Cromwell and Charles 1st at the mo Grin

I'm going to enjoy this history lecture...

mummmy2017 · 18/09/2019 14:26

Lol, is this bloke talking about poroge being right or wrong, so much waffle.

TheElementsSong · 18/09/2019 14:31

I don't think this is going according to plan.

Grin

Instead he's getting heckled by angry Northerners etc.

But I think amongst Bozo's supporters, either a good or bad public reception will be trumpeted as reasons for fervently adoring him. Hell, Bozo could behead kittens in the middle of Stonehenge and they'd still support him.

DGRossetti · 18/09/2019 14:31

"I'm not going to address what English law is about I'm here to address Scottish Law"

There is still the distinct possibility that prorogation will be legal in England, but not legal in Scotland.

Now in other, grown up countries (looks at US) a law that is unlawful in any state, is unlawful in the Union. Be interesting to see if that's how the "U"K sees it, or if indeed, as long as it's lawful in Merrie olde Englande, it's lawful in the universe.

I'd be curious to know the ramifications, were the latter to transpire ...

DeRigueurMortis · 18/09/2019 14:31

I rather liked this one (just because of Boris's expression)

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy
NotaRealLawyer · 18/09/2019 14:31

Eadie looks like he wants to be beamed up.

PerkingFaintly · 18/09/2019 14:32

thecatfromjapan, I think you're spot on about the planned Royal Progress. And it's, erm, deviation from plan.

Dear me, real people have real opinions. Who knew?Grin

DarlingNikita · 18/09/2019 14:36

Re the SPS plan not being sufficient, am I being unfair in thinking that BJ-Cummings and his acolytes thought that it would be sufficient because in their tiny minds, Ireland is nothing more than poor Paddy farmers, cows and sheep?

No, not at all. Remember the Murphy/Varadkar 'joke'?

Thereisalwayssomething · 18/09/2019 14:40

The problem with the man in the hospital is hes a Labour Activist.

And his daughter was only in A&E since last night.

I kept saying what he is saying is wrong. He is 100% right and what the Tories have done to NHs is criminal but it does seem a bit set up- and plays into BJ's persona of being the victim.

Thereisalwayssomething · 18/09/2019 14:40

*I am not, not I kept.

Bloody auto correct

NotaRealLawyer · 18/09/2019 14:45

He is getting to the point now.

Any power that the Executive has to suspend sittings of Parliament... can only be exercised....in a manner consistent with the over arching principle of accountability.
The Executive is subordinate to the Law and accountable to Parliament.
PM's actions has had effect of impeding Parliament from holding Government to account at a time when decisions will have irreversible impacts for our Country. i.e unlawful use of Power of Prorogation.
Not length of time prorogued BUT the effect of prorogation.

thecatfromjapan · 18/09/2019 14:45

Are Are you seriously saying he made his daughter sick enough to get admitted to a ward (no mean feat) just to nibble Johnson?

Seriously??!!!???

ListeningQuietly · 18/09/2019 14:46

Thereisalways
What have the father's political habits got to do with the shortage of doctors to treat his daughter?
Does he have less rights because he's an activist ?

DGRossetti · 18/09/2019 14:46

The problem with the man in the hospital is hes a Labour Activist.

And a man. And white. And a father.

thecatfromjapan · 18/09/2019 14:48

FFS.

Have you been to hospital recently?

My son was kicked out after a week in PICU because I was able-bodies and competent enough to home nurse him.

Straight from PICU to home. No in-between.

You don't just get admitted to wards because you fancy shouting at the ZpM these days

thecatfromjapan · 18/09/2019 14:50

I remember a friend being doorstepped by the media because her story was mentioned by a senior politician.

The pressure on normal people to keep quiet is immense.

The smearing and bullying is disgusting.

Stop it.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2019 14:51

lawyer Time to unprorogue that kitchen revamp ! Grin
Keep the sound on high and bop to the Supremes

TheCat I hope you are feeling more cheerful now
BJ stumbling from one embarassment to another

Robert Burns’ ode to a mouse
has always been my fav Scottish poem and is how I now think of BJ:

“Wee, sleekit, cowrin, tim’rous beastie,
O, what a panic’s in thy breastie!
……
But Mousie, thou art no thy lane,
In proving foresight may be vain;
The best-laid schemes o’ mice an’ men
Gang aft agley,
An’ lea’e us nought but grief an’ pain,
For promis’d joy! ”

ListeningQuietly · 18/09/2019 14:52

@BigChocFrenzy / @RedToothBrush
have I missed the new thread link ?

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