Reasons as to why you voted leave?

[Firstimemam]

Ladies & Gents,

This is really old news but I am new to mumsnet & would be interested as to why exactly you voted "leave" rather than "remain". Just your very honest opinion, I am not here to judge, just very intrigued.

[Effendi]

I've posted about my Mum before.

I live in another EU country and I voted remain.
My Mum, who lived in the UK at the time voted leave.
She voted leave because of immigration and she didn't like the EU telling the UK what to do.

Later same year she moved to the same EU country as me (was planned before the referendum) so became an immigration to that country where the EU tell them what to do.

She can't see the irony at all.

I read a comment on here from another MNr, she said not all leave voters are racists but all racists voted leave.

Kind of sums it up really.

[Songsofexperience]

So LifeContinues is really a reincarnation of Napoleon?

Napoleon was 5' 6, a perfectly average height for his time. Measurement in France was different, hence the myth he was much shorter. That and of course him being the arch enemy.

[bellinisurge]

"See even the regular Pro-Remain poster says that uncontrolled immigration has lead to problems."
Which was entirely caused by our sovereign government. Not by the EU.
Why on earth do you think Remain voters prefer uncontrolled immigration?
And aren't you an immigrant in the Far East country you live in? Surely you, an immigrant yourself, don't have a problem with immigration.

[1tisILeClerc]

{See even the regular Pro-Remain poster says that uncontrolled immigration has lead to problems.}

Rather than picking that line of argument and being a general twat, you should also have commented that I had attributed any effects of uneven immigration issues to being the responsibility of the UK government, who had and still fail to do their job of governing responsibly.
The poster commenting on the arrival of immigrants was taking a very unpleasant stance and had not explained whether the people who had swelled the population of the village were high earning tax paying citizens or were 200 single mothers on benefits.

[LifeContinues]

And aren't you an immigrant in the Far East country you live in? Surely you, an immigrant yourself, don't have a problem with immigration

I don't object to foreigners who go to UK to work as they will paying into the UK system, just like I pay into the system of the Countries I have worked in unless they are Tax Free (KSA, UAE, Oman, etc).

[Mistigri]

Isn't this thread good evidence that it really was all about immigration?

Signed: an immigrant.

[Peregrina]

It doesn't matter what you object to LifeContinues - most immigrants to this country come and work and pay taxes. Those legitimate ones anyway, I can't speak for people smuggled in, like young women smuggled in and being forced into prostitution, but that is a different issue.

Schrodinger's immigrant who takes our jobs but lives on benefits is a Daily Mail/Express/Telegraph fantasy.

[LifeContinues]

Isn't this thread good evidence that it really was all about immigration?

So there are 17.4 Million racists in the UK?

[Peregrina]

Has anyone said there were? Scroll back a few posts LifeContinues, to see what was actually written.

[Bearbehind]

So there are 17.4 Million racists in the UK?

No but there are certainly an awful lot of people for whom Brexit is only about immigration.

I don’t believe anyone who thinks no deal is a good idea is doing it for reason other than ‘we don’t need anyone else, we are great’ which actually translates to ‘lets get get rid of any foreign influence’

If you removed immigration from the equation and made the choice actually just about issues with EU the Leave wouldn’t get a look in.

[Mamamia456]

Immigration is fine if there's a shortage of British workers in a particular industry and people apply, have a job interview and the most suitable candidates are employed and given the same wage. But there wasn't a shortage of British workers in the Construction industry. We had enough workers who were willing and able to do the jobs, but they were undercut by cheap foreign labour, people who would work for less than half of the British wage and our workers couldn't compete. When you have poorer countries joining the EU of course their workers are going to look to other countries for work, but if there isn't a shortage of employment they are going to he taking jobs from other people because they are able to work for less. This is why the construction workers had protests. The labour party promised British jobs for British workers and then went back on that. Immigration will always affect manual work. What's the point of employing say 1000 foreign workers in the Construction industry if the 1000 British workers who could do those jobs are then having to claim benefits because they cant find work.

[Mistigri]

So there are 17.4 Million racists in the UK?

Population what, 65-70 million? That's probably not a bad estimate actually.

Not all racists will have voted leave, or vice versa.

[MissGiddyPants]

In my area, there are many Eastern Europeans who have moved in to what has been a Pakistani area since the 1970s. Mainly men who live in large groups in 2 bed terraced houses. No idea where they work but they do so in shifts, collected in transit vans. I suppose they could be modern day slaves.

Some have their families with them. There has been untold trouble with gangs of youths mugging schoolchildren walking home, and attacking other youths in the play parks. It could of course just be teething troubles of a new group moving into a community and it may settle down in a few years. But it causes a lot of resentment in those already here.

[Peregrina]

No but there are certainly an awful lot of people for whom Brexit is only about immigration.

Perceived immigration - or as often in reality too many blacks/brown/Muslims - who by now could easily be the third generation of Britons born here who know no other country.

[Peregrina]

We had enough workers who were willing and able to do the jobs, but they were undercut by cheap foreign labour, people who would work for less than half of the British wage and our workers couldn't compete.

Which is as much to do with the behaviour of Employers and of Governments not enforcing minimum wage standards. Now in the old days of strong Trades Unions they would have taken steps to stop this. They used to have closed shops - now that probably isn't a good thing but we under Tory Governments have gone to the opposite extreme and the unions have little power.

[Jason118]

I think what @Mamamia456 is objecting to is capitalism. Free markets with limited worker protection will always lead to the situation she describes; if business owners can get cheap labour they will, and if it's not from the EU it will be from elsewhere. Again, a UK government shortcoming blamed on the EU, a nice easy scapegoat.

[Peregrina]

Again, a UK government shortcoming blamed on the EU, a nice easy scapegoat.

And again, if the industry trained people well, the good employers would know that well trained staff do a good job and wouldn't need to be importing Poles or whoever.

[1tisILeClerc]

{Immigration is fine if there's a shortage of British workers in a particular industry and people apply, have a job interview and the most suitable candidates are employed and given the same wage. But there wasn't a shortage of British workers in the Construction industry}

What the world is struggling with is the fact that due to ingenuity and automation, which is rapidly developing, making the problem WORSE, is that politicians have not grasped the changing nature of work, and that at a certain level, there is not enough of it around.
This is not a UK specific problem but worldwide and the UK whipping itself into a frenzy about 'immigrants coming and stealing our jobs' is not helping at all. It is a deflection from the reality that depending on the definition of 'work' there is basically not enough to do for the populations of most countries using the models of the industrial past of say 50 years ago.
Radical thinking will be necessary, be it 'working' a 3 day week but spending part of 2 more days doing something like helping elderly, some 'community' activity or other.
Of course it wouldn't fit all 'industry' but without thinking about the global issue the UK won't be able to come up with proper 'solutions'.

[Largs]

OP, I voted Leave because I don't think the EU is sufficiently democratic to weald the powers it now does. The recent appointment of the top decision makers has reinforced this for me. I think it is a dangerous organisation that has developed too quickly without due regard for democratic accountability. Who will step in if Le Pen and her ilk get into power and are able to make all the key appointments?
It's a flawed unreformable institution that should have been kept as a simple trading bloc.

[bellinisurge]

@Largs , the democratically elected heads of member state governments voted for the posts in question. More democratic than our House of Lords. Or our head of state.

[Mamamia456]

Peregrina - Of course the Government and employers were part of the problem but it happened because of free movement under the EU. In the Construction industry a lot of people are self employed. At one time there used to be a lot of cash in hand work. My husband worked with someone who always had an excuse as to why he couldn't work on a Monday, turned out that was his signing on day. There's also a lot if small companies. But everytime people tried to talk about immigration they were shot down as being racist, it has been an issue for a long time, that no goverrnment has wanted to tackle. We are talking about British workers who wanted to be able to just go out and earn a living but couldn't. I honestly believe that if it had been tackled years ago we wouldn't be in this situation now. When people feel they are not listened to they will let their voting do the talking. I'm not saying that's the only reason, but I think immigration does play a big part.

[YoungEurope]

When we were in our last house, we were getting the garage converted, got 3 quotes from local firms who quoted around £19k and one from an Eastern European builder who quoted £11k. He then kept emailing my DH, dropping the price each time, until it got down to about £7k.
Agree with a PP who said that the construction industry has been adversely affected by immigration.

[1tisILeClerc]

{Of course the Government and employers were part of the problem but it happened because of free movement under the EU. In the Construction industry a lot of people are self employed. At one time there used to be a lot of cash in hand work.}

You are STILL trying to blame the EU for gross failings of the UK government.
All societies have an element of corruption, whether it is someone signing on and working or city analysts 'massaging figures'. Blaming the EU for UK incompetence is wrong. While I support the EU I freely acknowledge there will be many quite serious flaws, which should of course be addressed, however it is actions that are taken against the vast majority that are of importance. If 450 Million or so can live a 'free' and reasonably comfortable life then that is a damn good start.

[1tisILeClerc]

YoungEurope
This is just 'anecdata'.
Builders charge what they think they can, and whether the 'UK' builders were paying all the tax and good wages to their labourers or whether they actually get some (typically) Eastern European brickies and labourers in who are being paid cash in hand or whether the Eastern European builders are properly paying UK tax and rates to their tradesmen you have not specified.

As an aside, The statements by Theresa and others about the UK becoming the new manufacturing powerhouse of the world, apart from being bollocks also means that workers in the UK will be competing against all the low paid economies. So if you are a company making garments, you will be pitched directly at the 'sweatshops' on Vietnam and India.

[Mamamia456]

1tislLeClerc - You may think the EU is being used as a scapegoat but I don't, so I think we will have to agree to disagree on that one.