Reasons as to why you voted leave?

[Firstimemam]

Ladies & Gents,

This is really old news but I am new to mumsnet & would be interested as to why exactly you voted "leave" rather than "remain". Just your very honest opinion, I am not here to judge, just very intrigued.

[Peregrina]

Of course the Government and employers were part of the problem but it happened because of free movement under the EU.

Which our Government had the power to do something about and chose not to. Using the EU for their failures has been a mighty convenient excuse for them.

When I had some building work done I also got quotes. I did have a price ceiling, but within that didn't go for the cheapest quote - I went for the one who was the most willing to do what I wanted to the standard I wanted.

So if you are a company making garments, you will be pitched directly at the 'sweatshops' on Vietnam and India.

In the mid sixties to early seventies I lived in a textile manufacturing town - making up and finishing rather than spinning and weaving. Even then the work was moving to the Far East. Poor management and lack of investment, plus things like lack of marketing skills were much to blame. Some of the firms, knowing that they could no longer compete, could have switched to making higher quality goods, which would have required investment in machinery, staff training and management. In short, they didn't bother. Some of the firms were so poorly managed they almost deserved to go to the wall.

[Peregrina]

In a lot of case though Mamamia the EU is being used as a scapegoat. I have got tired of seeing that 'EU law doesn't allow, this or that'. When you actually look at what EU law says, you find that it doesn't disallow something or that the UK Government in implementing it has decided to add some extra flourishes.

I am involved in Local Politics. For the EU elections the common belief was that 'EU law doesn't allow Exit polls'. Until the same evening that the UK had its poll, the Dutch published their Exit poll results. So what EU law was stopping the UK? It wasn't EU law, it was the way that the UK had chosen to implement the EU law. That for me was just the latest example.

Sometimes you also find that it's not directly EU law, but underlying it is an international law or agreement. Johnson's bendy or straight bananas are one of those examples.

Not to say that all EU laws are good; I don't think anyone says that, but since 2010 we have had a Government which has chosen to disengage with the EU and has chosen to be obstructive, and I will repeat, blaming the EU has been a mighty convenient excuse for them.

[1tisILeClerc]

The UK will use the EU as a scapegoat for years to come, any excuse to deflect from the UK's failings.
It is already happening. The tabloid rags suggesting the EU is 'forcing' the UK to stay. The EU is waiting for the UK to stop dancing around it's handbag and decide what the hell it wants.

{Some of the firms were so poorly managed they almost deserved to go to the wall.}

When plastic became 'the thing' to make items out of in late 50's, and 60's 'Made in Japan' and 'Made in China' were slurs applied to the plastic tat that they manufactured.
Datsun cars had a reputation for being terrible and unreliable, arguably as bad as some of British Leyland's efforts. They learned the lessons and had a rethink and moved to much higher quality through investment. Datsun as a 'brand' was killed off. The UK, with it's unions and 'it's OK so we will carry on' attitude rapidly fell behind. investment came from Japan and elsewhere fitting Japanese gearboxes to UK assembled cars (Rover413?) which improved reliability.
Now Japan has a reputation for quality, and China maybe not so much as it can be plagued by counterfeiting. Much of the latest manufactured produce is excellent, as long as there is no sneaking dodgy parts into the process.

[Largs]

Bellini
democratically elected heads of member state governments voted for the posts in question.
Was this vote a proper secret ballot? If not, how much horse-trading went on in this "vote"? And as I asked before, what would happen if Le Pen was in power in France and a similar premier in Germany?
It's not a tried and tested democratic system. It's dangerous.

[1tisILeClerc]

{And as I asked before, what would happen if Le Pen was in power in France and a similar premier in Germany?
It's not a tried and tested democratic system. It's dangerous.}

Indeed, there is a possibility that Europe could lurch in that direction, but you need to consider that Farage has been having meetings with several of the far right leaders in Europe and the ideology if not sympathy is seen in BoJo.
If the EU were to become a 'nastier' bloc, the UK would follow even if it is not truly affiliated.

[Mamamia456]

Peregrena - Do you know anything about the construction industry. To try and suggest that the British haven't trained their workers properly and that's why we needed Polish workers is insulting.

[Largs]

If the EU were to become a 'nastier' bloc, the UK would follow even if it is not truly affiliated.
Nonsense.

[Largs]

I say nonsense as bollocks has been taken by the other side!

[1tisILeClerc]

{Nonsense.}

And what is the reasoning behind your assertion?
LePen, and other EU far right parties, Farage and elements of the Trump administration are all proposing policies that may not be in the best interests of the majority.
Discounting this with one word 'nonsense' is rather feeble.

[Largs]

Our first past the post system stifles the far right and far left. It is the MEP system that's allowed facism back to Europe.

[Peregrina]

That is not the MEP system, Largs. It is various PR voting systems, of which the UK uses two different one D'Hondt in Britain and STV in NI.
It's things like austerity which has allowed fascism back and things like the media deliberately sowing discontent, and a Govt which doesn't give a shit about significant parts of the country, so that the 'left behind' are encouraged to turn on each other. 'Immigrants' are a good group to turn on.

[Largs]

Apologies, I used the phrase "MEP system" as a shortcut for "a variety of PR voting systems".

[ContinuityError]

Was this vote a proper secret ballot? If not, how much horse-trading went on in this "vote"?

I think you could say exactly the same about the current Tory party elections and the horsetrading going on there - be a prominent supporter of Candidate X and Candidate X will give you a Ministerial position.

I wonder how many Tories currently think they're a shoe in for Chancellor?

[Largs]

The MPS are not voting. The party members are voting.

[Largs]

And the resulting PM will face a GE soon enough.

[ContinuityError]

MPs have already voted, and the horsetrading has been quite shameless. It's a running joke.

But agree that a GE is hovering just over the horizon.

[bellinisurge]

If you didn't know what the GFA was before you voted then you were pretty ignorant. I don't care if you downplayed it's significance or assumed that it would not be a problem (I have other words for people who think that) but if you didn't actually know what it was then you were an idiot.

[LifeContinues]

If you didn't know what the GFA was before you voted then you were pretty ignorant

I think most will have heard of the GFA and it was introduced with the intent of reducing hostilities, but may not have read it.

Seems to be the case that Cameron had not read it before calling a referendum. Also get the impression that MP's had not read it before voting to start Article 50. Only seems to have raised its head since the Attorney General's legal advice highlighted that the requirement of no hard border could tie UK into the EU forever.

[bellinisurge]

"Only seems to have raised its head since the Attorney General's legal advice highlighted that the requirement of no hard border could tie UK into the EU forever."
Bollocks. People talking about it on here prior to the referendum. BBC allowed Faridge to shut down any discussion of it with his "we never give in to terrorism" dirge.

[EngTech]

If we get the GE in September, JC will get in and we will not leave.

We live in interesting times 😎😎

[Kazzyhoward]

If we get the GE in September, JC will get in

There is no way that JC will win a GE.

[TheEmpireNoMore]

Can't see Labour winning a GE the switch from 2017 in which they said they would honor the referendum result to now being a remain party is a big gamble. Many constituencies that are traditional labour seats voted leave. South Wales, Middle England and North East are examples.

[bellinisurge]

JC is a Lexiteer. Yesterday's announcement doesn't change that or tie him to avoiding Brexit.

[twofingerstoEverything]

Deciding to 'be a remain party' is a gamble at this stage IMO. Having sat on the fence for so long, a lot of erstwhile Labour supporters are now voting for remain-supporting parties who nailed their colours to the mast a long time ago. Any trust they may have had in JC is gone. I, for one, would not trust JC to properly work in opposition to the government in an attempt to extract us from this mess. He has ignored the issue for too long. There's no point in pretending he's now committed to remain.