Reasons as to why you voted leave?

[Firstimemam]

Ladies & Gents,

This is really old news but I am new to mumsnet & would be interested as to why exactly you voted "leave" rather than "remain". Just your very honest opinion, I am not here to judge, just very intrigued.

I can’t help finding it extremely peculiar that a man who lives in the Far East chooses to spend so much time discussing something that won’t affect him on a forum where he knows it’s mainly women.

Why would a man chose to argue this point on a predominately female website when there’s plenty of other places he could go......

Don't worry about high taxes. They will get higher after Brexit

If the remain forecast is correct that UK disappears into oblivion as all companies have left the UK and everyone is unemployed how can taxes go up? Where is the income and corporate profits that can be taxed?

If you don't like the weather, I wonder how those people who don't have your options feel about it

Guess they have to live with it. If someone is not happy with their lot in life it is up to themselves to do something about it Brexit or no Brexit.

discussing something that won’t affect him

If Brexit collapses the UK as some seem to think then it does affect. Assets such as; property, shares and pensions could fall in value.

As the wikipaedia link says , taxation is complex.
Look at all the countries with 0% income tax.

One the whole, we are not a high directly taxed nation, but I don't have too much energy to someone who is a tax dodger in the UK, but would happily come back to use the NHS if necessary.

to argue with a tax dodger.

@Bearbehind does make you wonder doesn't it,

"Guess they have to live with it. If someone is not happy with their lot in life it is up to themselves to do something about it Brexit or no Brexit."
I don't recall that on the side of the bus. Or being spouted by Farage, Johnson et al. I happen to agree, having travelled and worked inside and outside the EU myself since the 80s. And it is so much easier for people to do it now than it was for me, what with freedom of movement in the EU. No... wait.

If Brexit collapses the UK as some seem to think then it does affect. Assets such as; property, shares and pensions could fall in value.

Yet you are arguing that that won’t happen.

And it also doesn’t explain why you feel the need to be so provocative and antagonising for such long periods to posters who you know are mainly women.

I can understand using it as a resource and engaging in discussion but you repeat the same shallow arguments for hours on end without ever providing any detail.

Still waiting for just one country we can trade with that we couldn’t before.

Like I said, I find it very peculiar.

The tax burden on the average UK worker is below the OECD average.

Corporation tax rates are also below the OECD average.

The man posting from well outside the EU claimed to be working in an oil related industry and was doing it for a bet IIRC, but under a different username.
Although it was a long time ago when I was in Kuala Lumpur as a 'Westerner' with privileges it was easy to see the distinctly lower quality of life that many Malaysians live. Lack of 'free' health service being notable, and no automatic pension provision.
Meaning that if you or a family member get sick, you have to pay, and that you have to find your own way to exist when you retire.

And it also doesn’t explain why you feel the need to be so provocative and antagonising for such long periods to posters who you know are mainly women.

The worst sort of Mansplaining - and he thinks he is so clever too.

Wonder if this is the lovely poster from a few months ago that was boasting of returning from the Far East to use the NHS?
Wasn't that the same poster who was whining about his non-UK born ex-wife living in the UK with their British children and sponging off benefits despite not having 'contributed'?

I was happy with the EEC which was what the country actually voted for in the first place, i.e. benefits of easier trade etc.

Over the following decades, I have become increasingly unhappy about all the "scope creep" that have been enforced on us without public consultation, such as freedom of movement of people, the ECJ, EU tax interference, suggestions of an EU army, basically, the creeping of the EU superstate.

Yes, I fully appreciate that some of these issues were worsened by our own government blindly accepting things we had the power to veto, such as free movement of people from the countries more recently admitted into the EU.

But, for me, it's just gone too far towards the European superstate and I want that rolled back towards what we originally voted for, i.e. the EEC trading area.

As for the "benefits" of the EU, i.e. human rights, safer consumer goods, cross-border co-operation, etc., we could have done all that without being part of the EU superstate. Nothing to have stopped us adopted the similar rules as the EU when it comes to human rights or electrical safety, but we'd have been in control! As for cross border co-operation, just look at Concorde - a joint venture between the UK and France before the EU superstate existed. As for security, we have reciprocal agreements with security services in countries outside the EU so why can't we have the same with EU countries without being in the EU? Re worker shortages, we already "import" workers from non EU countries, so why can't we make our own rules to "import" EU workers where needed - i.e. have a work visa system for jobs where there are shortages.

Nothing has convinced me that the scope creep towards the EU superstate is beneficial - nothing has convinced me that we can't collaborate with neighbouring countries without being in the EU - nothing has convinced me that we can't still attract immigrants for areas with skills shortages. If we are in control of our own laws, we can decide whatever we need to do to import goods, set our own VAT rates, set our own immigration rules, etc.

The only problem is that we need politicians and civil servants able and willing to actually put the work in, rather than lazily copying and pasting the EU legislation we blindly follow at the moment.

"The only problem is that we need politicians and civil servants able and willing to actually put the work in, rather than lazily copying and pasting the EU legislation we blindly follow at the moment."
Having worked with people doing that it absolutely isn't a cut and paste job. And much EU legislation allows for members to make their own laws on e.g national security, defence etc.
If you don't like the laws, change the government, don't flush our economy down the toilet.

We could go further than set our own VAT rates! We could scrap it altogether. However, Governments of all persuasions would be quick to reintroduce a purchase tax of some form because it's a nice big earner for them.

If you don't like the laws, change the government, don't flush our economy down the toilet.

Which political party hasn't just rolled over and accepted EU laws and regulations? What choice do we have? Where is the political party that stands up to Europe and doesn't allow this scope-creep? When it comes to Europe, there is little difference between the two major parties - both are split, just like the country.

We could go further than set our own VAT rates! We could scrap it altogether. However, Governments of all persuasions would be quick to reintroduce a purchase tax of some form because it's a nice big earner for them.

Nothing wrong with a purchase tax - most developed countries have it. What IS wrong is that UK VAT rules are dictated by Brussels. Quite simply, eg, the UK can't decide to reduce VAT on, say, new cars, without EU permission - that's taking away the sovereignty of the UK parliament and is just plain wrong.

I'm aware of at least one piece of legislation that we didn't implement the way the EU wanted and the EU started infraction proceedings against us for it. Which takes a loooooong time. Having travelled a bit in Europe I don't see, for example, health and safety legislation as furiously implemented in other countries as it is here. We have a greater fear of litigation and therefore tend to max out out obligations on the off chance of being sued by one of our citizens.

Nothing to have stopped us adopted the similar rules as the EU when it comes to human rights or electrical safety, but we'd have been in control!

This really winds me up and a truly don’t understand how Leavers can’t see this.

We wouldn’t be in control at all - we would just have the illusion of control.

Taking the example of electrical safety; if we want to trade with the EU we have to adopt heir rules, just with no say in them anymore.

It takes some pretty special mental gymnastics to conclude that means we are in control.

Taking the example of electrical safety; if we want to trade with the EU we have to adopt heir rules, just with no say in them anymore.

No, we'd have to comply with the EU rules for goods bought/sold between the UK and EU. We wouldn't have to comply for imports/exports with non EU countries. We wouldn't have to comply with "services" in the UK, such as installations etc where we could set our own laws as they wouldn't involve cross-border goods.

This is where the remainers annoy me. They don't appreciate that not everything is about the UK/EU cross border. In a lot of my working life, I've been involved with companies with very large non EU imports and exports, including one manufacturer who exported over 90% of their production outside the UK/EU to USA, China, Australia, etc. Complying with EU laws was just an unnecessary waste of time and money as we also had to comply with the non EU laws which were what mattered to our customers.

If all our trade was with the EU then fair enough, but a massive amount of our trade is outside the EU and the EU laws are just an obstacle rather than a benefit.

1tislLeClerc

strangely DH is a banker and he could be asked to relocate to Europe soon - or there's talk of redundancies which he's actually quite pleased about, good pay off.

But why on earth would I, as a Legal sec/EA etc move abroad and uproot 2 DC from their schools? If my friend in Dubai stayed there for years and educated her DC there and then at uni in UK - she's now returned to London to live as she has family there who bought her a house. But it does not make sense for me to move abroad.

Closertotheheart - yes of course companies should pay fairly regardless of nationality but if it's cheaper then yes a few will go down that route. There can also be problems, one architect I knew was Polish, hadn't been in UK long, approx 2 years, she didn't want to improve her English at first and it was bad. She couldn't be involved in client meetings until her English improved - not discrimination simply a requirement of her role. Once she took English lessons and improved then she attended client meetings.

I also got to know the nursing staff in a hospital when my DM was admitted and lots of them were immigrants from all over the world doing jobs British people wouldn't necessarily do, I did see British staff though.

Personally I do think controlled immigration can be good. I do not however agree with the underground immigrants who the Daily Mail etc flag up who go underground once they arrive e.g. in UK, Europe etc.

Still waiting for just one country we can trade with that we couldn’t before

As an EU member UK is not permitted to implement its own trade deals. Any trade deal is negotiated by the EU on behalf of the members. Once out of the EU the UK will be able to negotiate directly with other Countries, including those that UK trades with now, with EU supervision, control, etc.

No, we'd have to comply with the EU rules for goods bought/sold between the UK and EU.

Which is what I said.

Non-compliance only benefits those who don’t trade at all with the EU because few manufacturers can afford to produce goods to 2 standards.

rabiesalliance.org/resource/relaxation-eu-dog-transport-requirements-may-threaten-rabies-free-regions

One of my concerns, and highlights that all the EU countries have very diverse requirements so treating them as one single body does not work.
It was a record breaking imports of Eastern European pets last year- ie. from the areas which still have rabies. We are not allowed by the EU to have the stringent controls that we used to so is it not just a matter of time until rabies arrives in the UK with its plentiful wildlife and immunologically naive pet population.

As an EU member UK is not permitted to implement its own trade deals. Any trade deal is negotiated by the EU on behalf of the members. Once out of the EU the UK will be able to negotiate directly with other Countries, including those that UK trades with now, with EU supervision, control, etc.

Thank you for the mansplainin there 🤔

I know that. I’m asking which actual countries do we want to have trade deals with and what can they offer us / will they want in return

{Over the following decades, I have become increasingly unhappy about all the "scope creep" that have been enforced on us without public consultation, such as freedom of movement of people, the ECJ, EU tax interference, suggestions of an EU army, basically, the creeping of the EU superstate. }

The UK has been at the 'top table' and used it's influence over the years considerably, and would have had even more if all the MEPs were diligent. This idea of being 'victims' is complete crap. Many countries have been 'bullied' by the UK and some others in the EU and have far greater reasons to be unhappy. Overall though, they prefer the stability and safety of being 'in' the EU.

TheCatThatDanced.
As I have said, it is life choices. You don't want to move, that's fine, but do not prevent or make things difficult for those who do.

{ I do not however agree with the underground immigrants who the Daily Mail etc flag up who go underground once they arrive e.g. in UK, Europe etc.}
That is a failing of the UK governments to properly monitor the situation. In many parts of Europe if you turn up and expect to live there, you have to register and prove you are self sufficient for a year or more. Without ID and proof of address you do not get jobs or are able to rent housing.
The UK rejected ID cards and is reaping the downsides of a lax system.