Westministenders: Another Thread, another Shit Show. Its Trump Week

[RedToothBrush]

That is all.

Judges in his pocket then

Need to find a proper full report on this the press in misleading. Has the criminal prosecution been stopped entirely for ever? Or is it just paused, whilst there's a full judicial review of whether it can proceed?
Not clear if this is a final decision on a full judicial review of the magistrate's court decision?

Do you think we can infer that many of the Tories who haven't abandoned ship are soft remain?

Many will be soft leave too.

Or more accurately simply not arsed either way about Brexit.

At the EU elections Ashcroft pointed out the main three reasons Tories had for voting tory were 1) they'd vote for a donkey with a blue rosette 2) the think the party is more competent than the others 3) because they though policies other than brexit were more important.

So Tory loyalists who DID vote at the EU elections were somewhat indifferent to what was going to happen at in the EU parliament.

Add to that I note the turnout for the by election was 10% higher than the EU elections.

As I said before, those people who stayed at home for the European Election were much more likely to be even more indifferent to Brexit than those who did vote. Thus if that held true you'd expect support for Labour and the Cons to perhaps be higher at this by-election.

And strangely enough, the pattern of voting might well suggest that's what could be happening. We don't know this for sure but it would be consistent.

Also you could be seeing Tories who value Westminster much more highly than anything else (all the guff about Parliament taking back control hit a cord with someone didn't it). Thus whilst you might want to 'punish' your party at locals or the EU's the desire to do that 'when it really matters' aka Westminster elections, might not be nearly as strong because well... ultimately because of the Farage Paradox and they don't fancy him as PM precisely because he's only got one trick who is using Brexit as a Trojan Pony for fascism. Don't underestimate the motivation of the Anti-Fascist vote for Westminster (the one that's swept throughout just about every EU country since the referendum).

I think it's too easy to see UK politics now purely through the lens of Brexit if you are passionate about Brexit, but the reality is that most people are just fed up to the back teeth of it and don't care. And this is what hard leavers and hard remainers are most likely to miss because it's not their own mindset.

And that might be the undoing of Farage and any Tory leader who want to go down the No Deal route.

I said before that the Tory Party leadership candidates would be unwise to only talk about Brexit; they need to present much more.

The independent says the summons has been quashed with reasons to follow. Very disappointing. However it could be appealed to a higher court.

Also it may be possible to consider new proceedings or another route to pursue politicians who lie. The full reasons from the court will be critical.

Boris wins court case!

Tbf he should have. As much as I think he's a lying toad, the case against him was nonsense and would have unintended consequences to politics which mean no politician could ever change their mind after getting new information if a policy was in a manifesto. Which would have been ridiculous.

As much as I think he's a lying toad, the case against him was nonsense and would have unintended consequences to politics which mean no politician could ever change their mind after getting new information if a policy was in a manifesto. Which would have been ridiculous.

Because of course UK politics is a paradigm of sanity ....

To successfully prosecute on that offence the legal team would have had to show that any politician for saying facts which they knew to be untrue were liable.

I don't see how that would have the unintended consequence of limiting politicians from changing their mind on policy?

I thought that we knew that Johnson was aware that the £350 million which we might have spent on the NHS, was not sent to Brussels each week?

Ah BigChoc I did wonder (last week) why he had chosen to double whammy himself re political law and corporate (although DGR has vocalised it better) - so the 5 star movement in Italy was the muse! Says a lot and also agree the law here really does now have a chance to shine. Happy days ahead I suspect although I also suspect the backlash will be against judges (see also Italian post this am).

This would worry me about a second referendum - what would stop the Leave side telling blatant lies again?

Sorry I didn't express that very well. I think there's a big difference between politicians having flexibility to shift their views on policy, and being able to tell the public facts which that politician knows to be untrue.

The QCs opinion on the case was publicly available. I'll see if I can find it again. The case had merit regarding the lying, the main problem with the case seemed to be the status of MPs falling within that offence.

Re Boris - personally I think they should have to prove that they actively did research to check and confirm figures that they are willing to stand by in an election or referendum campaign. If everyone can just look up rubbish online and spout it out (political figures being supposedly held to account in public office) then we are in serious trouble. I don't believe for one minute Boris did any leg work to discover if this figure was true or not: and that is even scarier.

I thought that we knew that Johnson was aware that the £350 million which we might have spent on the NHS, was not sent to Brussels each week?

Yes Peregrina. That aspect of the underlying criminal case was strong. My understanding is that the issue with it was whether MPs are the type of office holder the offence was aimed at.

So if a head of a local authority told those lies they would definitely fall within the offence but MPs have more immunity?

I think the Boris court case "take away" (sorry horrid phrase) is how will this be perceived by the various electorates? Will it make some think more about what he/politicians say? Will it be seen as a witch hunt? Trump - Mueller style?

I'm just hoping for anything to make it less likely that he gets anointed leader, gets on the final 2.

Wow ! that was quick ....

Dear Mr. Farage,

thank your for your correspondence of 7th June 2019.

Whilst I appreciate your sincere desire to help with the process of leaving the European Union, I have to note that your only experience of public office is as a Member of the European Parliament. An institution the UK voted decisively to leave in June 2016. As such your position would be incompatible with the high standards of probity the UK has always displayed in international discussions.

May I take this opportunity to thank you for you interest and wish you well in your future ventures.

yours sincerely

on behalf of the Prime Minister

I think most of the legal arguments were around whether Boris was Mayor of London, or not when he was acting for the Leave campaign.

Not sure it helps things if we end up with a ruling that says people can chose to stop "being an MP" whenever it suits them. Otherwise we'll end up back with MPs getting up to fraud, sexual harassment and all other shades of naughtiness, but no way to hold them to account as "they weren't acting as an MP in that strip club".

I know it's a bit "Janet and John" but if I elect an MP, then that's what they damn well are until a new incumbent is elected.

We wait to see ....

Did the PM just say 'MPs are proper politicians and MEPs like you are not on the same level as the us here in Westminster'?

Cos Farage can hardly argue with that!

I don't believe for one minute Boris did any leg work to discover if this figure was true or not: and that is even scarier.

The UK Stats Authority wrote to him more than once with the true figures and Boris kept lying. It wasn’t that he didn’t bother the check the figures, it was that he blatantly carried on ignoring the truth.

So the Faragit has had a response from the outgoing prime minister denying him any involvement in any future EU meetings. Will there be a public furore to involve the Faragist?

What is his locus standi anyway ffs?

•If it’s because he is a radio presenter then TM could have said oh ok but I’ll need to include James O’ Brien, Chris Evans, Eddie Mair,Jenny Murray etc be on the panel too.
• if it was because he’s an MEP then all 750 should be included in any decision making process.
• If his standing is because he is the leader of a political party then Anna Soubry,Vice Cable, Caroline Lucas, Jonathan Bartley, Ian Blackford,Liz Roberts and Jeremy Corbyn should also be included.
• If it’s because he’s an unsuccessful parliamentary Candidate then candidates including Animal welfare party, Women's Equality Party,Workers Revolutionary Party,UKIP, Christian People's Alliance, English Democrats, Social Democrats, Christian alliance, Alliance for Green Socialism plus Lord Buckethead , the Monster Raving Loony party etc should be included.

Perhaps actually a panel of all the above categories could be an alternative to a people's parliament ?

Did the PM just say 'MPs are proper politicians and MEPs like you are not on the same level as the us here in Westminster'?

No, I did

Naughty Dante !

Wish I'd spent the time scrubbing up a faked no. 10 letterhead too

Fake news is FUN !

Wasn't Boris the one "chosen" to be prosecuted because he hadn't just been an MP (with its consequent protection ) but also Mayor of London while he was lying making false claims?

DGR - loving the "probity" and "on behalf of" as well as the message he is always going to be aligned with EU (now deemed as lacking probity) as that is who employs him - she's really nailed that one at least. Plus she couldn't even be bothered to sign it herself

Win or lose, the court case has drawn a lot of attention to the fact that the £350mil claim on the bus was a lie.