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Brexit

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...

939 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2019 09:48

Admitting the mandate for leaving has expired.

The newspapers today are full of Talk of both Corbyn and May panicking that Brexit is destroying their parties, so after nearly 3 years of party politics they have decided that actually they can agree on something in the next week or so. Not because it's in the national interest but because they don't fancy mutual self assured destruction.

If they do manage to cobble something together then it with be rushed and shite.

If they don't they will be punished at the Euro elections by a Remain / Leave pincer action.

They can spin it all they like from their local election disaster that it was people wanting to get on with Brexit. It certainly does not change the reality that those people who were most likely to vote are fed up with the pair of them. And that there is a strong indication that the most motivated voters are remain leaning. Perhaps its true that leavers stayed home in protest. If they did, what will they do if the Brexit Party stand candidates at a general election? Maybe they will vote, but you can't argue that they view voting itself as an important act. Spoilt ballots were up, but not that up. If the pair do manage a deal, then we have Brexited which might satisfy some. The trouble is the underlying issues are not to do with the European Union. And even if we leave with a deal that does not resolve our future trading relationship. The poison that is Brexit won't end. And the voters will realise that soon enough. Leaving even with a deal will harm the economy, and that's only going to fuel discontent.

It's therefore hard to see where either party go from here. Not when they are effectively split internally. The poison is here to stay.

Spinning it as 'it shows the public want us to get on with Brexit' isn't going to help their cause with voters who still think leaving is a national disaster. Those voters will still think its a national disaster and will be even more pissed at being ignored and dismissed once again.

Where is the incentive to return to voting Labour or Conservative?

The Euro Elections, if they go ahead, will therefore be about one thing and one thing only: turnout. Even if the Brexit Party do relatively well, it will be about how many turnout in comparison to the locals and in comparison to the last EU elections. Whilst they might not admit the reality of things, ultimately all Labour and Conservatives really care about is securing the vote of people who will vote because voting intention doesn't win them seats if people don't turnout.

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Peregrina · 05/05/2019 18:27

They list their candidates in order. So in the South east where I am, the current LibDem MEP is No. 1 so she would get the seat.
For ChangeUK - the ex-Tory Richard Ashworth is No 1.
For the Brexit party, no prizes for guessing whose name is No 1.
For the Tories it's Daniel Hannan.

Peregrina · 05/05/2019 18:31

I don't know how the other parties decided their order, but the LibDems listed all the people who had put their names forward and asked the members to vote for their preferences. From this a list of 10 names was drawn up.

The Brexit party, is basically just Farage, who put himself at No 1 - then a string of nonentities that no one has heard about. I doubt whether there was any form of democratic voting going on there, even though Leavers are apparently strong believers in democracy.

prettybird · 05/05/2019 18:41

How dare you say the rest of the turquoise party list consists of nonentities Shock Doncha know that there is Anunciata Rees Smugg - on the list Grin

BoreOfWhabylon · 05/05/2019 18:41

Thanks Peregrina.

Ellie56 · 05/05/2019 18:44

How dare you say the rest of the turquoise party list consists of nonentities shock Doncha know that there is Anunciata Rees Smugg - on the list

Yes she's in my area. But I won't be voting for her party. Grin

Peregrina · 05/05/2019 18:46

Anunicata Rees-Smugg isn't on the South East list. I think she's South West, isn't she?

Iambuffy · 05/05/2019 18:47

Nope.
East mids I'm afraid

Ellie56 · 05/05/2019 18:53

I do think Change UK (were the Greens asked as well?) should have responded when the Lib Dems reached out and suggested they run a combined campaign.

Iambuffy · 05/05/2019 18:59

Yep.
But they won't...

prettybird · 05/05/2019 19:14

But isn't that the point? The leader of the turquoise party is the only real name on any of the lists - except perhaps for Anton du Beke's former Strictly partner. I'm getting quite good at avoiding name checks Wink

Fortunately or unfortunately he can't stand in all the regions Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 05/05/2019 19:20

Brexit party figures who left over offensive posts are still directors

Surprise, the far right racists & anti-semites weren't kicked out after all

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/05/brexit-party-figures-who-left-over-offensive-posts-are-still-directors

Catherine Blaiklock, the first leader of the party, who resigned over a series of anti-Islam messages,
and the former treasurer Michael McGough, who was ousted because of antisemitic and other offensive Facebook posts,
are still listed as directors.

woman19 · 05/05/2019 19:21

I'm getting quite good at avoiding name checks wink
You are getting good at that. prettybird. I like this.Smile
Spike Lee calls their one 'agent orange'.Grin

borntobequiet · 05/05/2019 19:37

It was never possible to run a combined campaign. Both CUK and Green have confirmed this. If LDs are saying differently, it’s LD electioneering - and I was a LD - they are known for being economical with the truth when it suits, I’m sorry to say. LDs have many strengths, especially in local government, but as a national party, are as flawed as the others.
Having said that, I would still vote LD but for their shameful stance re gender critical women, something the party absolutely will not acknowledge. As it is, I support CUK, who are manifestly not perfect but are the only option imo to try to forge something new from the ruins of our political system.

WhatWouldScoobyDoo · 05/05/2019 19:39

PMK

ContinuityError · 05/05/2019 19:40

Two senior members of Nigel Farage’s Brexit party who left their roles after the Guardian uncovered offensive social media messages they had sent are still directors of the organisation weeks after they had supposedly cut all ties, it has emerged.

Emerged?

A quick Companies House search told me that at 8am this morning Hmm

mathanxiety · 05/05/2019 19:44

pmk,

GeistohneGrenzen · 05/05/2019 19:47

pmk

HesterThrale · 05/05/2019 19:49

Am I right in saying that the Lib Dems only got one MEP in 2014 (Catherine Bearder) and the Greens had 3?

Should we all vote Green??

I'll join Remainvoter too and see what they come up with.

NoWordForFluffy · 05/05/2019 19:54

Emerged?

A quick Companies House search told me that at 8am this morning

Maybe it 'emerged' after they read your post, CE!

ContinuityError · 05/05/2019 20:00

I did wonder!

TheMShip · 05/05/2019 20:01

born I've read similar about the d'Hondt system. Wish we had STV like NI, I much prefer it for multi member constituencies. The Remain vote would be much less easily misrepresented.

ContinuityError · 05/05/2019 20:01

And if so ... good! Would be great if Guardian journalists are reading these threads.

LoveCatzzz · 05/05/2019 20:09

Pmk

MockerstheFeManist · 05/05/2019 20:10

Adventures in Lack of Self-Awareness, pt 94:

Fresh from defenstriating the Boy Gavin for the heinous crime of talking to the press about secret things, Theresa May has just buggered her chances of a deal with Labour by leaking the confidential talks to a Sunday paper, just to big herself up and make it look like Labour is being obstructive (by not giving here everything she wants, like the EU.)

Icantreachthepretzels · 05/05/2019 20:21

Wish we had STV like NI, I much prefer it for multi member constituencies. The Remain vote would be much less easily misrepresented

Especially as we could ostentatiously not include the turquoise arrow party, UKIP and the tories when we numbered our preferences. (I say 'ostentatiously' - I mean just not give them an order of preference and only order the Remain parties.)
In such a situation I would put a preference onto Labour - but only as 4th place and only in an attempt to keep out hard brexit parties. I would hope that them limping into 4th place behind three remain parties (or fifth place in Scotland and Wales) would give them a message even they could not misinterpret.

But sadly - it is not meant to be. So far everything says I should vote Green in my region. I'm happy to vote that way for these elections but am also open to change my mind if the numbers crunch differently closer to the time. We shall see.

I agree with what a PP wrote (can't remember who -sorry) about the turquoise arrow party having a hard ceiling of support that they can't break through. You either like turquoise arrows - or you don't - and you won't change your mind this late in the game. Let's hope a lot of the cult members (sorry 'supporters' - they don't have members) don't bother to turn out on the day.