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Brexit

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...

939 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2019 09:48

Admitting the mandate for leaving has expired.

The newspapers today are full of Talk of both Corbyn and May panicking that Brexit is destroying their parties, so after nearly 3 years of party politics they have decided that actually they can agree on something in the next week or so. Not because it's in the national interest but because they don't fancy mutual self assured destruction.

If they do manage to cobble something together then it with be rushed and shite.

If they don't they will be punished at the Euro elections by a Remain / Leave pincer action.

They can spin it all they like from their local election disaster that it was people wanting to get on with Brexit. It certainly does not change the reality that those people who were most likely to vote are fed up with the pair of them. And that there is a strong indication that the most motivated voters are remain leaning. Perhaps its true that leavers stayed home in protest. If they did, what will they do if the Brexit Party stand candidates at a general election? Maybe they will vote, but you can't argue that they view voting itself as an important act. Spoilt ballots were up, but not that up. If the pair do manage a deal, then we have Brexited which might satisfy some. The trouble is the underlying issues are not to do with the European Union. And even if we leave with a deal that does not resolve our future trading relationship. The poison that is Brexit won't end. And the voters will realise that soon enough. Leaving even with a deal will harm the economy, and that's only going to fuel discontent.

It's therefore hard to see where either party go from here. Not when they are effectively split internally. The poison is here to stay.

Spinning it as 'it shows the public want us to get on with Brexit' isn't going to help their cause with voters who still think leaving is a national disaster. Those voters will still think its a national disaster and will be even more pissed at being ignored and dismissed once again.

Where is the incentive to return to voting Labour or Conservative?

The Euro Elections, if they go ahead, will therefore be about one thing and one thing only: turnout. Even if the Brexit Party do relatively well, it will be about how many turnout in comparison to the locals and in comparison to the last EU elections. Whilst they might not admit the reality of things, ultimately all Labour and Conservatives really care about is securing the vote of people who will vote because voting intention doesn't win them seats if people don't turnout.

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TalkinPaece · 05/05/2019 20:31

Pickup on MPs checking the electoral roll

THey are not allowed to deal with other people's electors
so I have contacted an MP on behalf of a client.
His MP is not allowed to email me directly (it has to go through my MP / him)
so they HAVE to check the list before replying

DGRossetti · 05/05/2019 21:02

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-brexit-deal-labour-corbyn-conservatives-eu-latest-a8900796.html

Brexit: Labour backlash scuppers Theresa May’s hopes of cross-party deal
Prime minister accused of exaggerating prospects to save her job – when her looming departure means it’s like negotiating ‘with a company about to go into administration’

A fierce Labour backlash has hit Theresa May’s hopes of quickly striking a deal to rescue Brexit.

A host of senior Labour figures poured cold water on the chances of a breakthrough – even as a Tory source called Tuesday a make-or-break day.

Shadow chancellor John McDonnell said the prime minister was inflating the prospects to try to save her job – meanwhile, Tories are piling on fresh pressure for her to quit.

Ms May was also accused of refusing to shift ground on a customs union and of risking the NHS going “up for sale”.

The collapse in support for her saw the talks likened to negotiating “with a company about to go into administration”.

The hostility followed the prime minister virtually pleading with Jeremy Corbyn to help deliver Brexit in a newspaper article, writing: “Put our differences aside for a moment. Let's do a deal.”

But her perilous position was undermined by a survey suggesting a record 82 per cent of Conservative members want her to quit immediately, following the party’s local elections wipeout.

As Ms May prepared for fresh demands to name a departure day when MPs return to Westminster, her own chief-of-staff quit a Tory WhatsApp group, protesting “I have had enough” of attacks on her.

The fresh acrimony between the two parties broke out as Labour claimed that details of the talks had been briefed to Tory newspapers to give the impression an agreement was only days away.

A Conservative source told The Independent the party was “optimistic” of a quick conclusion, saying: “Tuesday will be the time when we know the likelihood of a possible deal.”

An agreement had appeared more likely after both Ms May and Mr Corbyn – in the wake of their joint local elections defeat – were pushing their parties to compromise.

Strikingly, a senior Labour source denied the resumption of cross-party talks on Tuesday would be a make-or-break moment, even as the Tories insisted it would.

Although the prime minister has conceded a form of customs union, she appears to be pushing for it to be temporary, a demand that Labour says has not been raised across the negotiating table.

Jonathan Ashworth, the shadow health secretary, dismissed the idea of progress, saying: “Although the government is trying to redress their customs union offer, they haven’t really shifted.”

Ruling out Tory hopes of still doing trade deals in services, he warned: “With the United States, that could mean Trump’s America and big private healthcare corporations getting their hands on NHS contracts.”

Mr McDonnell went further, saying he did not “trust” the prime minister because she had "blown the confidentiality" of the talks to prop up her position.

“She's jeopardised the negotiations for her own personal protection,” he said, adding: “We're dealing with a very unstable government.

“It's trying to enter into a contract with a company that's going into administration and the people who are going to take over are not willing to fulfil that contract. We can't negotiate like that.”

Mr McDonnell also came close to admitting his own side would demand a Final Say referendum on any deal, as Tom Watson, the deputy leader, has demanded.

Mr Watson himself said: “I don't think we should give false hope on this, it's going to be very difficult to find a negotiated settlement.”

Tory fears about a deal were spooked further by Nigel Farage boasting that 85,000 people have signed up to his new Brexit Party to make it “the fastest growing political force in the land”.

Almost £2m has flooded in within a few weeks from grassroots supporters, ahead of a predicted victory in the European elections later this month, the former Ukip leader said.

Rory Stewart, the new international development secretary, claimed the two parties were only “a quarter of an inch apart” – and even said a split in the Tory party was a price worth paying to secure a deal.

That split was laid bare by the survey for Conservative Home website, putting the proportion of party members demanding a new leader at 82 per cent.

The same website revealed Gavin Barwell, the No 10 chief of staff, had pulled out of the WhatsApp group on his Croydon home patch, because of “attacks I would expect from our worst opponents”.

Graham Brady, the head of the 1922 Committee of Tory backbenchers, is expected to meet Ms May on Tuesday to again urge her to set a date for her departure.

If she refuses, they will consider rewriting the rules to allow a fresh vote of no confidence this summer – a move the 1922 stepped back from last month.

TalkinPaece · 05/05/2019 21:13

There are two parallel universes
in one, Brexit is the will of the people and the Tories were punished for not delivering it
in the other Brexit is a disaster and parties that support it were punished

I see both on my FB feed

BigChocFrenzy · 05/05/2019 21:35

I read that a least one voter drew a penis on their voting slip

Maybe we could refer to the nameless party as the Purple Penises

TokyoSushi · 05/05/2019 21:38

PMK

woman19 · 05/05/2019 21:47

Almost £2m has flooded in within a few weeks from grassroots supporters, ahead of a predicted victory in the European elections later this month, the (turquoise) leader said

turquoise funding

Wink

BCF Grin

woman19 · 05/05/2019 21:58

More than 100 opposition MPs, including 66 from Labour, said at the weekend they would not tolerate a “Westminster stitch-up” on a Brexit deal without a second referendum

But a number of MPs close to the People’s Vote campaign believe there are actually more like 150 to 180 Labour MPs out of 229 who will refuse to back a deal struck with May unless there is a confirmatory vote.A cynical Westminster fix won’t end the Brexit nightmares of May and Corbyn

One shadow cabinet minister said: “Jeremy cannot be sure he has the numbers – even if he whipped it – so he cannot do a deal without a confirmatory vote

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/05/labour-mps-say-they-wont-back-a-brexit-deal-without-a-peoples-vote

Seeing Guy Verhofstadt is going to be making an appearance with Steve Bray this week too this Friday. Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 05/05/2019 22:02

AAARGH David Groundhog Davies:

"The way forward is to go back to the EU and give it one last chance - renegotiate an acceptable deal, or leave calmly and speedily without a deal."

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9006070/david-davis-elections-brexit-deal/

OhYouBadBadKitten · 05/05/2019 22:07

pmk

BigChocFrenzy · 05/05/2019 22:13

James Forsyth: Will Nigel Farage’s Brexit party sink the Tories?

www.spectator.co.uk/2019/05/will-nigel-farages-brexit-party-sink-the-tories/

.... If the Tories cannot do this, then we are — in the words of one minister — ‘in Canadian territory’.

This is a reference to the fate of the Canadian Progressive Conservative party, which in 1993 went from being the governing party to holding just two out of 295 seats.

The party never recovered from this blow.
Ten years later, it had to merge — on unfavourable terms — with other parties of the right.

Some Tories fear that if they cannot deliver Brexit, they face a similar fate.

woman19 · 05/05/2019 22:39

France, Netherlands, Germany, Spain and North Macedonia. Smile

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...
Peregrina · 05/05/2019 22:52

TM should have reached out nearly three years ago - now it's far too late. All other parties also have the experience of seeing how the LibDems were treated in 'Coalition', so would be complete and utter fools to agree to a word the Tories say without it being made legally binding.

This is a reference to the fate of the Canadian Progressive Conservative party, which in 1993 went from being the governing party to holding just two out of 295 seats. ........Some Tories fear that if they cannot deliver Brexit, they face a similar fate.

Yes, please. This can't come quick enough. If you take Labour down with you, a bonus.

Peregrina · 05/05/2019 23:00

Having just read the Spectator piece, presumably written before Thursday - it's bigging up Farage enormously, but the Brexit party is basically a one man party - Farage goes and the rest goes phut.

Where also is the mention of Remain voting Tories? I don't think they have all turned, which is what Thursday's elections showed.

woman19 · 05/05/2019 23:02

This can't come quick enough. If you take Labour down with you, a bonus.
Irony of another country, once part of a functioning Yugoslavian state, plunged into nationalist/religious chaos and civil war, may well be taking britain's forfeited place at the EU table. Perhaps.......

woman19 · 05/05/2019 23:10

Where also is the mention of Remain voting Tories
Fraser Nelson had a good view of an EU badge wearing audience member in the front row at Any Questions on Friday, Grin and several hundred enthusiastic Remain voting tories, greens, labour and lib dems in the tory constituency audience. Smile He'll learn. Wink

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2019 23:12

Tomorrows papers seem to be pointing in an interesting direction

First up the Express saying deal 99% done

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...
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RedToothBrush · 05/05/2019 23:14

Then the I casts doubt on that

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...
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RedToothBrush · 05/05/2019 23:15

And the times says that May must not cave in.

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...
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RedToothBrush · 05/05/2019 23:16

Then it gets interesting. The Guardian says the reason why Labour are holding back is a 2nd ref. Is that the 1% left to do?

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...
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RedToothBrush · 05/05/2019 23:19

And the Telegraph, mirrors the Guardian of all people, by saying May is in secret talks for a 2nd ref.

There have been rumblings about a second ref since Thursday as the only way to save the two main parties. This seems to be growing.

However if they are going to go down this route they need to get a proper shuffle on to do it in time.

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...
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prettybird · 05/05/2019 23:19

Although I've already posted on this thread, I haven't done my traditional regal cat position....

So it seems appropriate to use this one: spot the cat Grin he's hiding from his brother, waiting to pounce Wink

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...
phpolly · 05/05/2019 23:30

.

thethethethethe · 05/05/2019 23:32

.

RHTawneyonabus · 05/05/2019 23:36

We don’t have time to hold a second ref before October

Littlespaces · 05/05/2019 23:40

www.labourpublicvote.org/confirmatory-vote