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Brexit

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...

939 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2019 09:48

Admitting the mandate for leaving has expired.

The newspapers today are full of Talk of both Corbyn and May panicking that Brexit is destroying their parties, so after nearly 3 years of party politics they have decided that actually they can agree on something in the next week or so. Not because it's in the national interest but because they don't fancy mutual self assured destruction.

If they do manage to cobble something together then it with be rushed and shite.

If they don't they will be punished at the Euro elections by a Remain / Leave pincer action.

They can spin it all they like from their local election disaster that it was people wanting to get on with Brexit. It certainly does not change the reality that those people who were most likely to vote are fed up with the pair of them. And that there is a strong indication that the most motivated voters are remain leaning. Perhaps its true that leavers stayed home in protest. If they did, what will they do if the Brexit Party stand candidates at a general election? Maybe they will vote, but you can't argue that they view voting itself as an important act. Spoilt ballots were up, but not that up. If the pair do manage a deal, then we have Brexited which might satisfy some. The trouble is the underlying issues are not to do with the European Union. And even if we leave with a deal that does not resolve our future trading relationship. The poison that is Brexit won't end. And the voters will realise that soon enough. Leaving even with a deal will harm the economy, and that's only going to fuel discontent.

It's therefore hard to see where either party go from here. Not when they are effectively split internally. The poison is here to stay.

Spinning it as 'it shows the public want us to get on with Brexit' isn't going to help their cause with voters who still think leaving is a national disaster. Those voters will still think its a national disaster and will be even more pissed at being ignored and dismissed once again.

Where is the incentive to return to voting Labour or Conservative?

The Euro Elections, if they go ahead, will therefore be about one thing and one thing only: turnout. Even if the Brexit Party do relatively well, it will be about how many turnout in comparison to the locals and in comparison to the last EU elections. Whilst they might not admit the reality of things, ultimately all Labour and Conservatives really care about is securing the vote of people who will vote because voting intention doesn't win them seats if people don't turnout.

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Icantreachthepretzels · 05/05/2019 23:47

I think it is generally agreed that a referendum can be held quicker than the 5 months it should take. However - if we held the referendum actually on Halloween then we would either remain or brexit on November 1st - as we would be doing anyway. There is still 5 months before Halloween (just).

Littlespaces · 05/05/2019 23:47

We don’t have time to hold a second ref before October

The EU already indicated that they would extend for a referendum or General Election.

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2019 23:48

I missed this today. Gavin v Theresa. Its getting nasty.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/gavin-williamson-sacked-huawei-leak-theresa-may-nsc-smears-a8901006.html?amp&utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true
Gavin Williamson accuses May of ‘classic smear’ over reports he made disparaging remarks about PM’s diabetes and wanted to ‘invade Africa’

The former cabinet minister allegedly said Ms May’s medical condition made her unfit to be prime minister, a comment he denies making.

He is also said to have considered military action in countries including Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Kenya and Egypt, according to The Sunday Times.

This is the man who said about scaring China with aircraft carriers and this sparked a diplomatic row in which Hammond cancelled a planned trip to China.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chancellor-china-trade-visit-gavin-williamson-aircraft-carrier-pacific-a8782211.html
Chancellor will not make trade trip to China next week amid fury at Gavin Williamson pledge to send aircraft carrier
Treasury announces Philip Hammond will not go on trade mission - after anger over defence secretary's 'gunboat diplomacy'

Indeed today's news suggests he reacted well to the incident:

The newspaper also reported that the MP scrawled the words “f* the prime minister” on official documents after Theresa May refused to let him send British warships into Chinese waters.

You might also remember him from classic government leaks such as:

inews.co.uk/news/politics/gavin-williamson-suggests-firing-paintballs-at-spanish-ships-in-gibraltar/
Gavin Williamson suggests ‘firing paintballs at Spanish ships in Gibraltar’

Now I don't know about you, but I'm sensing that at some point he's either said all these things or he's managed to REALLY piss someone off. And the papers think it's credible enough on source to publish all these 'ridiculous' stories about him.

Reminder this is a man who wants to be PM badly and is either a liar, a dangerous warmonger or has an awful lot of political enemies or all three are true.

OP posts:
Ellie56 · 05/05/2019 23:55

I saw John Mc Donnell's interview. He was really pissed off with Theresa May for breaking confidentiality.

HesterThrale · 06/05/2019 00:00

Court case Ball v Johnson starts May 14th.

A crowdfunded private prosecution against Boris Johnson MP for the alleged offence of misconduct in public office.

mobile.twitter.com/MarcusJBall/status/1125148989308002306

www.crowdfunder.co.uk/brexitjusticeprosecution

Dontlickthetrolley · 06/05/2019 00:04

I've just come back from dinner at a friend's, she told me she's thrown her EU polling card away Angry I've told her she doesn't need it and she wants to know who to vote for, I've told her I'll investigate and let her know, so good to see the Remain Vote are on the case. She was a Remainer in 2016 I'm making it my job to make sure she votes!

Flowerplower · 06/05/2019 06:02

Signed, @Littlespaces. I used to be quite cautious about who I gave my email address out to. Not anymore - mention remain or a PV and you can have it!

BigChocFrenzy · 06/05/2019 06:35

The EU would extend for a PV

BigChocFrenzy · 06/05/2019 06:44

Williamson: "either a liar, a dangerous warmonger or has an awful lot of political enemies or all three are true."

All three
Fortunately he won't become PM
The tarantula / familiar that keeps him as a pet will be angry

However, Boris also has all 3 and he is the current fav for next PM - because of powerful forces & the party membership behind him, which scare off his enemies
Boris would probably be manipulated behind the scenes, because he is far too lazy to think what he is doing as PM

BigChocFrenzy · 06/05/2019 06:50

Corbyn faces opposition from at least 60 MPs to a customs pact with May without a second vote

but that's not many at all.
I expected about 200 want a PV - 60+ is a small hardcore

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/05/labour-mps-say-they-wont-back-a-brexit-deal-without-a-peoples-vote

lonelyplanetmum · 06/05/2019 06:57

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Peregrina · 06/05/2019 07:36

I hope this case isn't dismissed.

I would really like to see him prosecuted for misconduct in public office. Ideally for more than the £350 million a week, with the implication that we would spend this on the NHS - for the money wasted on the Garden Bridge, and illegal water cannon which had to be sold for scrap.

borntobequiet · 06/05/2019 07:39

I’ll donate to that! This is becoming an expensive BH weekend in terms of donating to crowdfunders for me, however it’s peaceful as no sleepovers to supervise (peace shattered next weekend when I look after DGDs on an overnighter).

woman19 · 06/05/2019 07:53

Chancellor will not make trade trip to China
Luckily, Philip May was available.
But Philip May will also make his first full bilateral foreign trip at his wife’s side, in a move Downing Street said was intended “to support the Prime Minister
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/theresa-may-china-trip-husband-philip-biggest-ever-trade-delegation-belt-and-road-initiative_uk_5a6fa02ce4b0a52682fec652

Hope that Ball case succeeds, Hester Smile
Dontlickthetrolley Getting the vote out has worked before and it will work again. Smile

Peregrina · 06/05/2019 08:02

Philip May holds which elected office?

MInd you, the two of them came canvassing round here a few weeks back, and as I predicted, it was the kiss of death for the Tory candidates.

Motheroffourdragons · 06/05/2019 08:05

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Peregrina · 06/05/2019 08:13

DD was 'never going to vote LibDem again' after the student fees debacle (even though her student days are behind her and she wasn't affected!)

So she voted for the Green where there was a candidate and LD otherwise.

A reflection of time moving on and circumstances changing.

MissMalice · 06/05/2019 08:17

PMK

1tisILeClerc · 06/05/2019 08:25

{Philip May holds which elected office?}
It is quite often 'protocol' to have partners (spouse) on official trips, as hinted in the Huff article.
It looks like about a dozen women on the list if 50 companies going.
The biggest issue I can see with the idea of this possible mass increase in trade is what the UK can offer that the Chinese can't already do themselves. This is made a lot more problematic by the very inequal trading and intellectual property rights. There is no 'leverage' to stop Chinese companies copying and then undercutting anything nominally made in the UK. Thus an innovative product might be developed in the UK but after the initial success, getting the following profits to flow back to the UK workers (management can simply be bought out and they can move on) but it would not necessarily help the 'workers' in the UK.
The Belt and Road Initiative is quoted as having nearly 90% of it's construction going to Chinese companies, not much of an 'equal' partnership.

Motheroffourdragons · 06/05/2019 08:27

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woman19 · 06/05/2019 08:58

it's economy, stupid

woman19 · 06/05/2019 09:14

'it's the economy, stupid' was successful Democrat slogan in 1990s......
Could never be used now. But economic discrepancies is why we have what we have in this country right now. The millions of London poor keep the capital, and arguably the whole country, going, btw.

LonelyTiredandLow · 06/05/2019 09:26

I'll bet my hat that Bannon is funding Farage.

1tisILeClerc · 06/05/2019 09:53

it's economy, stupid

I'd prefer to live in Burnley over London.
Mind you the air quality is a lot better there with the mills closed, about the main upside of killing off the old 'heavy' industries (or ones using coal for power).

prettybird · 06/05/2019 09:57

Catching up again

Going back to the ex purple party leader's claim to now preside over the fasted growing party in the UK, with all the dirty money from members and anonymous donors, he not surprisingly forgets the SNP and the surge in membership of nearly 100,000 following the Indyref, plus the public donation of £1 million from the Weirs (rollover Lottery winners).

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/party-membership-since-indyref/

Membership has continued to be boosted with every latest Brexit clusterfuck and last September was sitting at 125,000 (despite understandably losing a few to non-renewals of those that joined in frustration following the Indyref). And I have the faintest of suspicions that its members are a damn sight more active than Turquoise party members Wink

I wonder how many Turquwouz I like that mispelling WinkParty members there are in Scotland Hmm