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Brexit

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...

939 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2019 09:48

Admitting the mandate for leaving has expired.

The newspapers today are full of Talk of both Corbyn and May panicking that Brexit is destroying their parties, so after nearly 3 years of party politics they have decided that actually they can agree on something in the next week or so. Not because it's in the national interest but because they don't fancy mutual self assured destruction.

If they do manage to cobble something together then it with be rushed and shite.

If they don't they will be punished at the Euro elections by a Remain / Leave pincer action.

They can spin it all they like from their local election disaster that it was people wanting to get on with Brexit. It certainly does not change the reality that those people who were most likely to vote are fed up with the pair of them. And that there is a strong indication that the most motivated voters are remain leaning. Perhaps its true that leavers stayed home in protest. If they did, what will they do if the Brexit Party stand candidates at a general election? Maybe they will vote, but you can't argue that they view voting itself as an important act. Spoilt ballots were up, but not that up. If the pair do manage a deal, then we have Brexited which might satisfy some. The trouble is the underlying issues are not to do with the European Union. And even if we leave with a deal that does not resolve our future trading relationship. The poison that is Brexit won't end. And the voters will realise that soon enough. Leaving even with a deal will harm the economy, and that's only going to fuel discontent.

It's therefore hard to see where either party go from here. Not when they are effectively split internally. The poison is here to stay.

Spinning it as 'it shows the public want us to get on with Brexit' isn't going to help their cause with voters who still think leaving is a national disaster. Those voters will still think its a national disaster and will be even more pissed at being ignored and dismissed once again.

Where is the incentive to return to voting Labour or Conservative?

The Euro Elections, if they go ahead, will therefore be about one thing and one thing only: turnout. Even if the Brexit Party do relatively well, it will be about how many turnout in comparison to the locals and in comparison to the last EU elections. Whilst they might not admit the reality of things, ultimately all Labour and Conservatives really care about is securing the vote of people who will vote because voting intention doesn't win them seats if people don't turnout.

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1tisILeClerc · 10/05/2019 16:04

TheElementsSong
A little moderation please. Not all facists have a silly moustache and it is stooping to their level of pig ignorance (or heading in that direction).

1tisILeClerc · 10/05/2019 16:05

{God knows why they sent one to me!}
Are you out of toilet paper perhaps?

Littlespaces · 10/05/2019 16:05

Are horns allowed?

DGRossetti · 10/05/2019 16:08

Clearly no one at all is interested in my vote.

Here's an interesting legal-philosophical question.

How much is a vote worth ?

Let's start by asking how much each person who was rightfully entitled to vote last Thursday, but turned away can claim in compensation ? Assuming a rerun of the election is out of the question.

I'm guessing "fuck all" is the answer. So when it comes down to it, all elections are worthless as are the results. Zero times anything is still zero.

Certainly a new way to confuse Leavers. (If you needed one beyond asking them their name and the time in the same sentence).

RedToothBrush · 10/05/2019 16:12

Time for a Brexit update. Remember the talk of the WAB / WAIB in order to get a cross party deal through....

Charlie Falconer @lordcfalconer (he's Labour)
She’s not going to introduce the EU Withdrawal Bill because she would be defeated. She’s not going to do a deal with Labour. She is not talking at all to the EU. She has no programme apart from Brexit. And she has nowhere to go on Brexit. Clinging on for what?

Tim Shipman @shippersunbound
Not many Tory MPs privately disagree with this analysis

Alex Wickham @alexwickham
Tory MPs wanted Theresa May to spring a vote on the WAB next Thursday after pressure from the 1922 to make progress... they have just been told they’re on a 1-line whip

So that one has just died a death.

So what next?

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...
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magimedi · 10/05/2019 16:18

Labour leaflet came through the door today - not addressed to any one, just in a bundle with pizza delivery offer & estate agent junk. Al gone into the recycling bin.

Songsofexperience · 10/05/2019 16:19

A referendum is genuinely the only way to go. There is nothing else. Or May just clings on until Halloween then No Deal because no solution is forthcoming from the UK and the EU will have had it for good. No more trade with them. Ever.
That would please a few nutters and destroy the country.
Bloody hell.

💐for pointythings

DGRossetti · 10/05/2019 16:26

Labour leaflet came through the door today

Our MP has our details (and has used them ...) since I tend to fire off a lot of emails. Nothing as of yet, but then my last missive was to explain why Labour could whistle for my EP vote and parliamentary vote, assuming no change in policy.

Littlespaces · 10/05/2019 16:31

Happy five minutes defacing the hated leaflet.

Not sure if I can post photo!

BigChocFrenzy · 10/05/2019 16:38

pointythings 💐
My deepest sympathy for your loss

magimedi · 10/05/2019 16:42

Flowers pointythings.

Take care of yourself at such a major moment in your life.

BoreOfWhabylon · 10/05/2019 16:46

Flowers pointythings

No leaflets here so far.

I had none for the local elections either, except from an independent candidate, so I voted for her. She came second, which I hope will have shaken the complacency of smug tory man who seems to think his family have a divine right to rule round these here parts.

prettybird · 10/05/2019 16:49

Flowers for pointythings

Some things are more important than Brexit Sad

RedToothBrush · 10/05/2019 16:49

James Forsyth @jgforsyth
There's hasn't been a vote in the Commons chamber for a month now. Quite remarkable

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Littlespaces · 10/05/2019 16:51

pointythings

Flowers
DGRossetti · 10/05/2019 16:53

There's hasn't been a vote in the Commons chamber for a month now. Quite remarkable

Is it ? Wasn't it "Project Fear" that warned Brexit would jam up parliament for years. Luckily we had the country sorted before, otherwise we'd be in a real muddle.

Of course now we have to watch the sides as well as the front, as there are probably a myriad little schemes going on to bypass this block. And by definition, none of them are legal.

Icantreachthepretzels · 10/05/2019 16:57

So it's Lib Dems all round, then? Good good.

Elements my mum got one of those leaflets and is also planning to post it back - I'll tell her to add on the Hitler moustaches.

Flowers for pointythings so sorry for your loss.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/05/2019 16:58

iirc there were several hundred laws that had to be passed before Brexit

Have they given up on those, or were they all passed on the nod, just before Parliamentary recess ? Hmm

BigChocFrenzy · 10/05/2019 17:00

Turquoise Turkeys

my suggested name for them - because their voters are voting for Christmas ..... but will get a roasting

Mistigri · 10/05/2019 17:02

Pointy Thanks That sounds horrendous, doing all the organising at a distance. Do you have siblings or other family to help?

Something interesting in twitter earlier. It was polling of support for a "put it to the people" vote which had some surprising findings, in that only 1 in 2 ChUK voters would vote for a PV (not that dissimilar to the tories).

It got me wondering whether people who choose ChUK in polls might not include some Faragists. The Brexshit Party strapline is "change politics for good" and it comes before the party logo on some of their artwork. I think some less switched on (euphemism) respondents might be getting confused.

woman19 · 10/05/2019 17:03

Flowers pointythings

GaspodeWonderCat · 10/05/2019 17:07

Poll card arrived (hurrah). Also addressed leaflet from lib-dems and Brexit (which got shredded). LibDem in the SW & Gib, I think. Excellent showing in local elections ...

www.libdems.org.uk/pepc-2019 all lib-dem candidates for Euros.

www.carolinevoaden.info/ Caroline Voaden for SW&Gib

BigChocFrenzy · 10/05/2019 17:08

Misti A number of Remainers just want the govt / HoC to Revoke, without another ref,
because of the division that a PV could bring, or because they don't want to risk No Deal being an option

QuentinWinters · 10/05/2019 17:14

I think the Govt should revoke as that's in the nations best interests. We could always leave at a future point when there is actually a plan. We have kind of defacto revoked anyway with the withdrawal agreement for nothing

I think another referendum will be really divisive and unhelpful.

Yaralie · 10/05/2019 17:22

I shall be voting LibDem in the SW and hope we elect Caroline Voaden and Martin Horwood. The LibDems have had two MEPs in the SW in the past and they did a very good job.

Top of the Chuk's list is Rachel Johnson who apparently left the LIbDems because she wanted to be put no 1 on the London list without a selection process. The LibDems are a democratic party and candidates are chosen by the members. Sadly she will get some votes because she is a "cleb".