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Brexit

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...

939 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2019 09:48

Admitting the mandate for leaving has expired.

The newspapers today are full of Talk of both Corbyn and May panicking that Brexit is destroying their parties, so after nearly 3 years of party politics they have decided that actually they can agree on something in the next week or so. Not because it's in the national interest but because they don't fancy mutual self assured destruction.

If they do manage to cobble something together then it with be rushed and shite.

If they don't they will be punished at the Euro elections by a Remain / Leave pincer action.

They can spin it all they like from their local election disaster that it was people wanting to get on with Brexit. It certainly does not change the reality that those people who were most likely to vote are fed up with the pair of them. And that there is a strong indication that the most motivated voters are remain leaning. Perhaps its true that leavers stayed home in protest. If they did, what will they do if the Brexit Party stand candidates at a general election? Maybe they will vote, but you can't argue that they view voting itself as an important act. Spoilt ballots were up, but not that up. If the pair do manage a deal, then we have Brexited which might satisfy some. The trouble is the underlying issues are not to do with the European Union. And even if we leave with a deal that does not resolve our future trading relationship. The poison that is Brexit won't end. And the voters will realise that soon enough. Leaving even with a deal will harm the economy, and that's only going to fuel discontent.

It's therefore hard to see where either party go from here. Not when they are effectively split internally. The poison is here to stay.

Spinning it as 'it shows the public want us to get on with Brexit' isn't going to help their cause with voters who still think leaving is a national disaster. Those voters will still think its a national disaster and will be even more pissed at being ignored and dismissed once again.

Where is the incentive to return to voting Labour or Conservative?

The Euro Elections, if they go ahead, will therefore be about one thing and one thing only: turnout. Even if the Brexit Party do relatively well, it will be about how many turnout in comparison to the locals and in comparison to the last EU elections. Whilst they might not admit the reality of things, ultimately all Labour and Conservatives really care about is securing the vote of people who will vote because voting intention doesn't win them seats if people don't turnout.

OP posts:
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1tisILeClerc · 10/05/2019 12:17

From the Guardian online.
{Donald Tusk: chance of Brexit being cancelled could be 30%

EU chief says good reason to believe leave vote could be reversed in second referendum}

Mr Tusk using a quote by Churchill at the end of the piece is a nice touch. It is a shame he is leaving his post in November.

borntobequiet · 10/05/2019 12:18

I stuck with LDs throughout the Coalition and defended their decision to go into that coalition on many occasions. I understood why a Lab-LD coalition wouldnt't work and to a certain extent I was fooled by Cameron, who I thought was genuinely trying to move the Conservatives towards the centre. It was the unthinking throwing of women under the bus on the trans thing that made me leave the party (after re-joining in 2015). I'm just so offended by the utter nonsense as well as the injustice of it.
But as others have said, hair on fire. I'll vote CUK in any GE (subject to a sensible set of policies) as I really would like to see a realignment in British politics, including the LDs having to rethink some of their manifesto as a result.
Maybe we will end up with LD dominated local government and strong LD showing in the Euro Parliament, and something very different in the HOC. Well I hope so.

borntobequiet · 10/05/2019 12:23

The Brexit Party
Farage-on-Sea
Little England (circa 1955)
Nowhere in Europe
The Solar System (9 planets please)
The Galaxy (good British chocolate!)
The Universe
not in a black hole

DGRossetti · 10/05/2019 12:23

More Dilbert. What on earth can be inspiring Scott Adams ?

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...
Motheroffourdragons · 10/05/2019 12:24

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

dreichuplands · 10/05/2019 12:27

I didn't renew my LD membership that I took out after Brexit as the lack of tolerance for different views on the female issues struck me as very illiberal and the lack of concern for safeguarding as frankly pretty dangerous. Also tweets made it pretty clear they didn't want people with my views in the party. So I wasn't going to stay and give them my money.
But Brexit is the current main issue that needs dealing with. It is the context this election will be seen in.

Spindelina · 10/05/2019 12:30

Delurking to say that my remain vote is up for grabs, in SW. In a LD stronghold - clean sweep in the locals - so it's hard to imagine going against that tide.

I pretty much agree with everything born said above (except that I've never actually been a member).

LonelyTiredandLow · 10/05/2019 12:31

Bit of light relief from FB which made me giggle Grin

DGRossetti · 10/05/2019 12:31

I understood why a Lab-LD coalition wouldnt't work and to a certain extent I was fooled by Cameron, who I thought was genuinely trying to move the Conservatives towards the centre.

If you were fooled, so was I. And I had the pleasure of sitting for over an hour at a "Cameron Direct" in 2009 less than two yards from him. In which case he sold himself out and so deserves all he gets.

I remember at the time, Labour were agitating for a chance at coalition and there was some ill feeling that the LDs told them "no way". But I also think the reason given was clear and reasonable. Mainly that the electorate had rejected Labour who had been in power and therefore it would have been profoundly undemocratic of the LDs to have re-enabled them as a government. Whereas the Tories had not been in power so had "clean hands". Most tellingly, I seem to recall Gordon Brown stepped in and accepted that decision as politically and democratically the right one.

Speaking of "The Brown", it's his failure to go for a GE in 2007 that meant the 2010 election, rather than (as I believe would have happened) a 2012 election.

Motheroffourdragons · 10/05/2019 12:38

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

LonelyTiredandLow · 10/05/2019 12:43

IIRC Brown refused to meet Clegg...

DGRossetti · 10/05/2019 12:44

I never understood why a Lab - LD coalition wouldn't work

Er Lib-Lab pact ?

Anyway, it wasn't the LDs saying it wouldn't work. Just that it was more in line with the election result to consider the Tories first.

LonelyTiredandLow · 10/05/2019 12:46

I also think we need to remember the spin the Tories put on LD is a large part of the reason they get the blame still now for a lot of Tory policies, rather than the Tories themselves.

BoreOfWhabylon · 10/05/2019 12:53

Well, after the way Molly Scott Cato treated Maya Forstater* on The Daily Politics, I just can't bring myself to vote for her. I'm prepared to suppress my GC stance pro tem for the greater good, but not to that extent.

Looks like Lib Dems for me.

*Woman who lost her job for stating men can't become women. There's a thread in FWR.

DGRossetti · 10/05/2019 12:57

I've tried to stay out of it, but this entire Trans issue which has appeared from nowhere only seems to serve to disenfranchise women voters. I really haven't seen it mentioned anywhere in the wider XY community. For various reasons I read a lot of forums, newsgroups and specialist sites, and only on MN are people discussing it and how it will stop them voting .

It all seems to quick and too rounded to be a natural phenomenon. I'm not given to conspiracy, but if I wanted to find a way to effectively take womens votes away, it would be hard to come up with a better scheme.

(Ducks).

thethethethethe · 10/05/2019 12:59

We've heard from the Greens too.

BoreOfWhabylon · 10/05/2019 13:01

Politics Live, not Daily Politics

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0004w88

RedToothBrush · 10/05/2019 13:07

DGR it was used in exactly that manner in the Trump election.

I don't think you are wide of the mark.

The problem for me is its rather more personal than it is for others. For a variety of reasons.

OP posts:
BoreOfWhabylon · 10/05/2019 13:08

DGR. MN is about the only place that allows discussion of genderstuff. Don't want to derail the thread though, so I'll leave it there.

pointythings · 10/05/2019 13:15

I had a leaflet from Labour today. I may have slightly yelled at the image of Corbyn on the front. The words 'Brexiteering cuntnugget' may have been spoken by me. I'm claiming stress - my mum died last Saturday and I'm on compassionate leave sorting out funeral and other practicalities. From abroad.

I'm in the East and I want to vote to support Remain - so does DD1 who is a new voted jut turned 18 this year. Am watching these threads closely.

TalkinPaece · 10/05/2019 13:17

Re election literature
Neither DH or I have had any, the kids each got a LibDem leaflet

friends got a Brexitage leaflet for their son
so they tried to burn it
but it was flame retardant paper
bloody EU safety rules Grin

Iambuffy · 10/05/2019 13:29

Alright?

Still a fuckfest I see?

Been a bit AWOL but am checking in every day as thos is the best source of Brexit news available! - real life has been a bit meh - ds1s exam angst, mum has been ill, ds2s anxiety is getting worse and dh is away til next week.

Anyway, I'm voting lib dem next week. Whilst holding my nose and muttering under my breath.

Peregrina · 10/05/2019 13:30

I did have to think long and hard in 2015 to vote LD again, but once I had made up my mind it became easier, and once I decided that I must help get the then Tory MP out in 2017, it became easier still. There is no realistic Labour challenge locally so there wasn't too much of a dilemma. In a way it's a pity about the lack of Labour challenge because for the first time in absolute yonks they put up a very strong candidate, who would have made a good MP.

MrPan · 10/05/2019 13:30

They have Ben Shapiro ( raging racist and doesn't care who knows) and Isobelle Oakenshott. On the same programme. On the BBC.

BBC have found a new depth.

1tisILeClerc · 10/05/2019 13:36

pointythings Flowers