Remainers will be responsible for a no deal Brexit

[prettypossums]

When Brexit happened, it seemed a shame and a mistake. As the deadline looms without any deal or consensus, however, it seems pretty clear to me that a no deal outcome will be at least partly the fault of those Remainers who have sought to catastrophise/sabotage any negotiations from the outset - in the vain hope of forcing a second vote. The latter was (IMO) never on the cards and Remainers have completely overplayed their hands, making their own worst nightmares come true. Where some level of conciliation/compromise might have led to a better & closer deal with Europe, instead we are left with a stalemate and looming no deal.

I’m not British, btw, these are my observations as an outsider.

Nope, anyone who voted for Brexit is responsible for whatever Brexit we end up with.

The two Brexit ministers resigned because they were being overruled by May and Olly Robins so it's hardly their fault that we are where we are.

That's as lame an excuse as the behaviour of Davis and Johnson was. Johnson refused to throw his hat into the ring for the Leadership election. He would have walked it had he done so, and would have had ample opportunity to show how negotiating could and should be done. Why didn't he step up then?

Davis - entrusted with the most prominent job of negotiating Brexit, couldn't be bothered to turn up most of the time. On the few occasions he did, he left early. Never took any paperwork with him. Again another one who had ample opportunity to show how Leavers were better negotiators. So why didn't he do so?

I will agree that May is a hopeless negotiator. I thought that from the first time she stood up at PMQ - totally the wrong person for the job.

I thought that from the first time she stood up at PMQ - totally the wrong person for the job.

Depends what the job was.

The job of healing the country after a divisive Referendum had split it in two.

Was it though? The EU would never make a reasonable deal and the hardcore brexiteers won’t accept half measures. The EU just isn’t geared towards that kind of negotiation. I doubt that anything the British did after the vote had any real impact on the deal they offered.

The job of healing the country after a divisive Referendum had split it in two.

Was she trying to do that job ? Seems to be her job - executed with the precision of a watchmaker - has been to drive the UK into a no-deal Brexit that "no one was expecting". In which case, she deserves to be viewed as one of our most successful PMs ever.

At least POTUS has some sort of job description they can be held to. A British PM can do pretty much anything they like and not do anything they don't and there's diddly squat anyone can do - as we are finding out.

Well obviously my idea of what a PM should do and Theresa May's idea of the PM's role differ.

The EU would never make a reasonable deal.......The EU just isn’t geared towards that kind of negotiation. I doubt that anything the British did after the vote had any real impact on the deal they offered

Thats crazy! May set down a series of Red lines that meant the deal offered could only be the deal she signed, the EU also gave way on the backstop and CU that the UK demanded.

Why intelligent leavers can't see that is beyond reason.

Well obviously my idea of what a PM should do and Theresa May's idea of the PM's role differ.

Ah ! Well that's the flaw in UK democracy, really. It's all very well us Remainers noting that Leavers had no idea what Leave meant, but on a wider scale, no one really knows what an MPs job is - which we are also discovering for the first time. We blunder around voting, supporting parties, etc, but ultimately for what ? I have more say in who cleans my windows than anything my MP does or doesn't do. I certainly have the right of redress in a court of law if they don't discharge their contract - verbal or written - to my satisfaction.

Brexit is a cumulative expression of all that is wrong with our democracy. We've been gamed, and never realised. It's not as if we didn't get a preview with the expenses scandal.

Why intelligent leavers can't see that is beyond reason.

Because they still don't believe the end goal is no deal.

I don't 'blame' remainers for anything but they are not helping us get a decent deal.
Remainers know exactly how to get the best possible deal
revoke A 50
But the politicians are too pig headed to admit publicly that there is no good Brexit

Yes DGR it is looking increasingly likely that no-deal was always the plan.... and the delay is to convince everyone that it never was.

Quite unbelievable really.

I don't 'blame' remainers for anything but they are not helping us get a decent deal.

So, @Doubletrouble99 tell us what you think a "decent deal" looks like, and we'll help you get it then.

Decent deal = Revoke

Leave means Lies.

By definition if the UK leaves the EU ANY deal with the EU and all the 70 other countries(?) that it has trade deals with will be WORSE.
For anyone to suggest otherwise is just plain wrong.
Deals with other countries that the EU is not part of COULD be better, but then the amount of trade done with them is pretty small in comparison.
Of course it is not all about trade, but then few of the other aspects of the UK EU relationship have great impact.

Have you not heard the latest?
90% sure in Brussels it will be no deal, as May can not get the whole of Parliament to follow her lead.
EU have said they can't do any other deal no time left...

Have you not heard the latest? 90% sure in Brussels it will be no deal

as low as that ? I think it's closer to 99%.

I would like to know how many of the HoC have actually read the whole of the WA that in theory they should have at least looked at.

Where was the 90% reported please? Not questioning it but would like to see what was said about it.

What Leclerc FOM doesn't have great impact!

If leave voters try to make Brexit in any way the fault of remain voters, I'm really going to lose my shit.

Leave voters, every single damn one of them, needs to own their responsibility for writing this horror story for the UK.

So, @Doubletrouble99 tell us what you think a "decent deal" looks like, and we'll help you get it then.

{What Leclerc FOM doesn't have great impact!}
In the grand scheme of things, no.
In some areas immigration and it's effects should have been handles better, but then you need to examine the failure of the UK government and local councils to make necessary provisions.
FoM in itself is not an issue, lazy and incompetent management is.

Because they still don't believe the end goal is no deal.

That was a far more charitable answer to the question posed than the one that sprung immediately to my mind, I must admit.

The EU has only made reasonable deals.
It would be very unreasonable to offer Britain as good a deal as non-member as they had as actual member.

UK has shown selves to be disorganised to exceptional level. At least EU are trying to think long-term about safety of NI border and make sure that issue, plus rights of residents, are assured in each place. Only one adult in the room, though.

Remainers will be responsible for a no deal Brexit

Hilarious
The people to be blame are those who cba to check what they were voting for, and those who simply cba to vote at all.