Remainers will be responsible for a no deal Brexit

[prettypossums]

When Brexit happened, it seemed a shame and a mistake. As the deadline looms without any deal or consensus, however, it seems pretty clear to me that a no deal outcome will be at least partly the fault of those Remainers who have sought to catastrophise/sabotage any negotiations from the outset - in the vain hope of forcing a second vote. The latter was (IMO) never on the cards and Remainers have completely overplayed their hands, making their own worst nightmares come true. Where some level of conciliation/compromise might have led to a better & closer deal with Europe, instead we are left with a stalemate and looming no deal.

I’m not British, btw, these are my observations as an outsider.

Trying to work out if the OP is a troll or an ERG type.

hmm! not had this problem b4, images not appearing first time.

It'll be remainers fault

But leavers don't think it is remainers fault.
However we do think you lost due to the millions who couldn't be bothered to vote... Including people on mumsnet who admitted to being in that group.
So it is about time you all faced up to the fact even though this vote was won by only a million votes, you could have won, had the I don't cares voted....

I kind of want to understand the "It's the Remainers fault" logic.

Usually the narrative is about Remainers "undermining" as in saying anything critical, and not coming across as resolved and tough, so EU senses weakness and comes in for kill. I guess the logic of this story is that poor Mrs. May isn't really tough enough without the sense of MPs standing firm behind her. Coz we all know what a softie pushover the "bloody difficult woman" is.

OP is in a strange fantasy world populated by Few, in claiming that that Remainers stopped a nice friendly soft-brexit from happening and EU would be so much more compromising if only Remainers were cheerful.

Mummmy - that is patently obvious but its all if if if if and more ifs... its irrelevant.
They didn't vote and their views will remain unheard, huge decisions like brexit should not be decided by a minority of the electorate.

However, perhaps even you can admit that the referendum has split the country...could lead to unification Ireland and another scottish referendum...... both sides have very passionate advocates and for me, i believe these splits in society will be Brexit's lasting legacy

"You lost" are we "you people "? Have you stopped even trying to bring everyone together. You just want to drive us all over a cliff. Pathetic.

“Hopefully a new kind of politics will arrive”...
Enter stage right - Nigel Farage.

There are no winners here.

{ mummmy2017 Fri 15-Feb-19 08:34:52

But leavers don't think it is remainers fault.}

Your sentence is too long. It should say 'But leavers don't think.'

Or is the "It's all the Remainers' fault" narrative this:

If only the Remainers became Brexit-cheerleaders, then someone (anyone else) would have been PM instead of May, so then a 'better' deal would have been obtained. 'Better' seems to mean "Would have forced EU to compromise a lot more." I want nominations for which alternative PM would have made EU compromise a lot more.

In meantime, Brexitcentral is heaving with articles about how marvelous it will be to Leave on No Deal. So who cares about getting a WA? They say we're already on the very best fantastic path. In that case, if No Deal is the fault of Remainers, then the Brexiters should be thanking the awful Remainers for putting UK on the path to exactly what Brexiters want.

Headless gymnastics...

Is that a fish slice that very flexible lady has in her hand?

The biggest problem the UK faces is that unless by some weird miracle the clock turns back 3 years, there is NO government capable of getting the UK onto an even keel let alone correcting the 'wrongs' that started this whole charade unless both hard left and hard right MPs are imprisoned and removed from politics and a moderate centre coalition party with constructive ideas effectively take 'full' control. The UK is rapidly becoming a 'failed state'.

It's weird.

I swear I've seen some posts on this thread by familiar Leavers who have said, on other threads, that they're positively juicy hot for No Deal and they knew in 2016 that they were voting for No Deal, and anything more moderate than No Deal is a betrayal of The Will, and how marvellous No Deal will be.

And yet here they are eagerly agreeing with the OP that No Deal is the fault of Remainers, wah-wah-wah something something compromise, etc.

This whole blame thing is exactly how one of my dogs behaves after he’s farted.

He gets up and gives me a very dirty look while moving to nap in a fresh new place.

I’m left with the stink and the blame.

Mummy you voted for no deal, this is what you wanted to happen when you voted. You and 17 million other people have now got your wish. Blaming remainers for some people not voting almost sounds like you would rather we had won ?

Its a bit like when leavers say they don't think it is going to happen, you cannot help feeling that what they actually mean is, hopefully it wont happen.

Hopefully a new kind of politics will arrive .

Then you need to get of your backside and work to make it arrive. As those people did in the 1940s who had a vision to build the NHS. They didn't just sit around wishing and hoping.

Leavers expect someone else to do the real thinking and actual doing for them. They stuck a cross on a ballot paper and are sitting back waiting for the world to run to them.
They will be sadly disappointed.

Its a bit like when leavers say they don't think it is going to happen, you cannot help feeling that what they actually mean is, hopefully it wont happen.

For a vote which apparently delivered "the will of some of the people", it's illuminating how few Leavers actually own the result. A few here and there (on these boards particularly) but generally it seems there's a lot of Leavers who - for some reason - aren't that happy with the way things are going Going right the way up teh greasy pole to the ERG. They're leavers. This is leaving. What's the problem ?

mummy I was rather hoping and praying for something slightly more concrete than you fervent No Dealers 'hoping' that a 'new kind of politics' will arrive and so what exactly happens in the meantime and er what if they don't magically appear? I often wonder if these posters who can't wait for No Deal are secretly sitting in their kitchens thinking 'shit, shit, shit what have we gone and done'.

I don't 'blame' remainers for anything but they are not helping us get a decent deal.

Firstly 70% of MPs are remainers so are very unlikely to vote for anything that removes the likelihood of ever remaining.
Most of the civil service are likely to be remainers . The likes of Olly Robins for instance, does our negotiating ability no good at all.
The two Brexit ministers resigned because they were being overruled by May and Olly Robins so it's hardly their fault that we are where we are.
May is a crap negotiator who has no idea how to put forward specific proposals to get a deal through to the EU and other political leaders in Europe. She is far too wishy washy with them and is too easily swayed by them.
The remain MPs who want to take a no deal off the table, want to extend article 50, or want a second referendum are completely undermining any leverage we might have with the EU and are just making it more unlikely that we will get a descent deal. We have to be hard nosed when negotiating with the EU and May certainly hasn't been.
We are now in a position where the EU will not entertain opening up negotiations on the back stop until they are sure TM will be able to get the agreement of parliament on any change they negotiate.
They think that she is so weak that any deal they negotiate at the moment will be thrown out by Parliament and she will just come back for more concessions.

They are running the clock down so we now have no choice but to suck it up and play their game right down to the wire. Our only hope is that the likes of Merkel is lent on by some of her business leaders to sort things out and get the EU moving.

What help is needed to get a decent deal? The WA is the best you can hope for. Eventually the grown ups will vote for it (I hope) and we get a transition period. TM is playing down the clock because the twats in her party and the DUP haven't accepted it yet.

I don't 'blame' remainers for anything but they are not helping us get a decent deal.

Why should they ? The best deal going was to be a member of the EU.

We keep being told - to the point of boredom - how it was the majority that voted to leave. WE GET THAT. So why can't the majority fuck off and sort it all out then ? Surely that's the whole point of being a majority ?

{They are running the clock down so we now have no choice but to suck it up and play their game right down to the wire. Our only hope is that the likes of Merkel is lent on by some of her business leaders to sort things out and get the EU moving.}
It is Mrs May and the UK that is running down the clock.
The EU is simply waiting for the UK to make it's mind up what the hell it wants.
The EU don't need to negotiate anything else, they have said their piece and now it is up to the UK to accept the WA or walk (with a slight possibility of Revoke).
Had the UK made ANY effort to negotiate over the last 2 1/2 years the EU would have listened and worked with the UK as long as the UK was not trying to break up the principles of the EU.
The WA proposes things that are 'excessive' in terms of what the EU want to really give and as such they will not offer any more. Remember it is the UK that is leaving, the EU don't 'owe' the UK anything and as such they could simply withdraw all the 'offers' that they have made and slam the door shut. Failure to appreciate this is simply pathetic 'we are special' thinking on behalf of the UK, and it won't wash any more. It is time to grow up.

I wonder why most MPs and most civil servants are Remain. Could it possibly be that they know a bit more about international relations than my Leaver Great Aunt who hates foreigners even though she lived in South Africa during apartheid?

You decided to put your hand in the meat grinder. We have no idea how to make that the best ground hand ever, nor do we have a wish to be in charge of your rehabilitation. The fact that you're shoving our hand in too makes us really really keen on not doing what you say.

I wonder why most MPs and most civil servants are Remain

I think a better question is why those that aren't remainers at least had a cogent and debatable reason for their stance, as opposed to the rentagob mob for whom the apogee of lucidity was "Sovereignty" which pretty quickly broke down to it's constituent elements of xenophobia and racism.