Remainers will be responsible for a no deal Brexit

[prettypossums]

When Brexit happened, it seemed a shame and a mistake. As the deadline looms without any deal or consensus, however, it seems pretty clear to me that a no deal outcome will be at least partly the fault of those Remainers who have sought to catastrophise/sabotage any negotiations from the outset - in the vain hope of forcing a second vote. The latter was (IMO) never on the cards and Remainers have completely overplayed their hands, making their own worst nightmares come true. Where some level of conciliation/compromise might have led to a better & closer deal with Europe, instead we are left with a stalemate and looming no deal.

I’m not British, btw, these are my observations as an outsider.

Exactly how many people never bothered to vote..
Remain if you need someone to blame, these are your problem, not the ones who made their cross on the paper.
To repeat myself, if about a dozen of us on this thread can't agree how do you expect 27 representatives of millions of people could?.

Can you count, OP? Most of the people who voted against the WA are Brexit SUPPORTERs. They are the ones blocking the WA & any way forward. Many of them also had positions in govt where they could have shaped Brexit but they failed... because it's an awful problem and they want if anything more redlines than May proposed.

The most common reason for voting against WA is because it threatens too much compromise & closeness to EU. The people voting against WA because it's blind Brexit (Libdems n =12) or they prefer Remain/PV (n = about 53, a sum that includes the Libdems) over any version of Brexit are a minority % of total who voted against WA. We're stuck in this stalemate due to intransigence never-compromise stances of DUP (n=10) & ERG (n= about 70) plus about 38 other Tories, few of whom are also PV supporters.

Really? Where in Germany was that? Because i live and work there too- and every single Person i speak to thinks Tusk was spot on- and that it is such a shame that you still don‘t seem to see the catastrophe that awaits you?

What are we supposed to be compromising with? We’re have the leave campaign and May reached out and offered us anything in the way of compromise?

Despite the Vote Leave manifesto promoting soft brexit and May being a remainer, the government have been trying to negotiate the hardest of hard brexits. That isn’t a compromise. Many remainers could and probably would support a softer brexit over no deal but we’re not being offered that.

And even if all the remainers did get behind the WA in order to prevent no deal the leavers hate it too. Remain getting behind it doesn’t mean that it’s going to get through. The leavers are actively trying to destroy it or run down the clock to get no deal instead.

Nope.

I read a thing by James O'Brien saying as soon as any Brexit plan is written down the whole thing falls apart because no plan can possibly meet the contradictory promises that were made in the campaign.

Brexiters want to keep no deal on the table because it'll be the last Brexit bubble to burst. It's harder to oppose something when it's not totally clear what it involves/there's no written plan to pull apart.

I think Remainers have a moral duty to continue questioning why we would contemplate Brexit when it's pretty clear membership of the EU is much better than any deal would be, and radically, overwhelmingly better than no deal.

We should have a second referendum, kill this stupid Brexit thing and get down to sorting out the homegrown injustices that made people want to shake up the political order.

I blame May more than anyone although all catastrophes are cumulative and there are many points in a developing crisis when various people could have acted differently and it would have done some good at least. But mostly I blame May for triggering Article 50 (and all the MPs who voted for it) without a plan, and then her appalling negotiation with Olly Robbins, then her mistaken conviction that a compromise deal would appeal to everyone when in fact it united everyone against her because there really are some things that are too big to compromise on. She is a grafter but she has terrible management skills and vision, and that's what was needed.

I can't identify a single 'adversarial' approach from the EU
From Boris, Gove, Davis, Fox et al you're spoilt for choice - oh and which side was compared to nazis?

Bless you OP, you seem a bit confused..

I think leavers need to accept that all the shite they've been peddled about empire and Britain being great is essentially, rot. The UK is small island to the west of europe. The EU, nor anyone else is not going to be strong armed by the bluster of the likes of Farage and Johnson.

The UK is now reduced to naval gazing. The WA is all that is available. The sovereign government of the UK cannot agree on this - an irony lost on leavers. NI continues to be the elephant in the room.

Leavers have been warned but they'll clearly never learn. In the meantime the union they profess to love is being damaged for generations.

Err, no.

The people who voted for Brexit will be to blame for however Brexit happens.

It should have been a compulsory vote with a none of the above option

I can't bring myself to say anything more eloquent than fuck right off, OP.

People to blame = the people that voted for it. They should never be forgiven. They were warned.

I never thought I'll use it but are you perchance on glue OP?

Impressive mental gymnastics there, op

How has this goady piece of dog shit not been deleted yet.

I think leavers need to accept that all the shite they've been peddled about empire and Britain being great is essentially, rot.

I've tried talking about this to my birth family. It is like hitting a brick wall.

It is like they have joined a Leave cult.

This is almost as bad as the person who said I was making racism worse by calling out (blatant) racism. (Apparently if you say something is racist then people think everything is racist so they become more racist. Or something. I still haven’t quite fathomed it out.)

The Brexit Leavers voted for never existed. The UK can not dictate its terms to the club it has chosen to leave, and why on earth do the EU need to compromise?! The status quo continues for them, we’re one small island which produces very little itself.

There is no compromise to be had, and it is not Remainers catastrophising, it is CEOs of companies and industry who are saying ‘we’re going’ or ‘this is going to affect us drastically’ and EU citizens who currently bolster things like care work, hospitality, farming, catering, to name a few, who are saying ‘we’re going’.

I’m genuinely puzzled as to what precisely, what benefits will materialise, that motivated Leavers to vote to destroy the only solid platform we had in the global situation. Free trade? China and the US plan to make us pay? Selling weapons to the developing world? Ceasing working with military and police intelligence? Divorcing ourselves from the border protection afforded to us across the channel?

To be crude, either you were sold a fucking donkey, or you are the fucking donkey. You voted to take this country back 30-40 years, whilst the rest of the world continues to progress and work together.

I could cry, xenophobia, lack of wishing to read anything but rabble rousing headlines and a misplaced sense of your ‘voice’ being heard. Cameron and his Tory exploiters should be hung for treason.

Had even 10% of the I can be bothered , have got off their arses and voted. You would have won....

We bothered, I am praying no deal wins...
That May in her arrogance, her WA is the only way ... Causes this...
That the EU don't back down, and the bells chime no deal.
Why would the EU give us extra time, when this vote proves there is no plan....

What compromise do you think Remainers should make? And who exactly are you talking about, the public, politicians, who?

Had even 10% of the I can be bothered , have got off their arses and voted. You would have won....
We bothered, I am praying no deal wins...
That May in her arrogance, her WA is the only way ... Causes this...
That the EU don't back down, and the bells chime no deal.
Why would the EU give us extra time, when this vote proves there is no plan....

Do fuck off.

I agree with chardonnay at 19:24

I don't particularly blame people who voted leave for this shit show

But im sure as hell not blaming any one who didnt vote for it!!!

That May in her arrogance, her WA is the only way ... Causes this...

leaving the single market, leaving the CU. Prior to the referendum the most ardent leavers would have jumped at this. Now its not good enough?

If you're upset over the backstop you were warned about NI prior to the ref.