The leavers lagoon - a thread for tranquility & optimism.

[surferjet]

Good morning brexiteers.

Well, we’re almost there ( although today will be interesting )
So if you’re not worried in the slightest about anything ( I’m not ) then jump into the pool of tranquility, & let the warm water of optimism & new beginnings wash over you.

Fully appreciate some remainers have real concerns, but in the interest of balance, plenty of us haven’t.

This thread is for us.

How will the movement of people be controlled with a non physical border? Yknow EU citizen flies to Dublin takes bus up to Belfast?

{Or we get great trade deals.
Stocks rise, after being depressed.
We have a rise in living standards.
Buy British becomes a by word for luxury.
More houses are built.
We thrive....}
If you say so.

People travelling is less of an issue as there is a common travel area. The border is necessary for goods checks.

When a child is born they are a blank page, which time and tide write upon.

What tosh, as almost any parent or grandparent could tell you. They come with physical attributes and minds of their own.

The common travel area is British/Irish citizens only. How do you distinguish what nationalities are crossing the border?

The border is necessary for goods checks
No reason at all why goods have to be checked at the border.

How will the movement of people be controlled with a non physical border? Physical borders do not stop illegal immigrants. Britain is an island FFS and that doesn't stop the illegal immigrants coming in. Unless your Trump of course

How do you distinguish what nationalities are crossing the border?

Well for a starters, you assume that black or mixed race people cannot be either British or Irish - as my DIL can confirm, despite holding both passports.

I must have imagined controlling borders being a key issue in the leave campaign. The breaking point poster also.

Given some refugees in a deflated dingy caused outrage over Christmas I can’t imagine the usual suspects being happy with a porous border.

I can’t imagine the usual suspects being happy with a porous border
Somehow I dont suspect you give a shiny shot about the feelings of the usual suspects, whoever they are.
So essentially you are a remainer arguing to stop Brexit because it isn't hard enough? That takes the

No I’m exposing the contradictions, hypocrisy and ignorance of the leave campaign and their magical plan to maintain the GFA whilst ignoring the need for a border for hard brexit.

To summarise Brexit means continued asylum seekers crossing a porous border and more economic migrants just from non Eu countries to fill skills shortages

Brexit means continued asylum seekers crossing a porous border and more economic migrants just from non Eu countries to fill skills shortages
You have no proof for any of that, you are just spreading fake news. Now why would a remainer do that. hmmm I wonder?

But its actually quite funny that on one hand you claim the UK will be devastated/destroyed by Brexit, but on the other you claim it to be the a magnetic land of opportunity where the streets are paved with gold, for asylum seekers. Quite the mental gymnastics going on there.

"We always knew it would come down to the wire, we have been told and told again that the EU tend to do this. They always say that nothing can be done but do it in the end."

I imagine that myth arises out of negotiations on intra-EU treaties. Things like Lisbon or Maastricht where even the French have to stay late into the night on the appointed day. Except that sometimes a parliament rejects the treaty & it needs tweaking or a 2nd Refdm.

Brexit ain't like that. EU accommodates members; they don't accommodate non-members. We chose our bed, time to lie in it.

Canada or S. Korea FT deals with EU didn't "come down to the wire". They took ages (years) of faffing about and talks. Things like accession to membership happens on flexible timelines, too. I doubt EU has ever done a trade deal to a strict deadline, why would they start working that way now?

You’re probably right I must have imagined immigration being an issue. I must have imagined the brexit claims of economic prosperity. I must also have imagined the dire warnings from businesses about hard brexit. History being rewritten.

I must have imagined immigration being an issue
It was and that is why we need Brexit to end free movement of people. Sorry if that offends you.

I must have imagined the brexit claims of economic prosperity
Give us some time we haven't left the EU yet.

I must also have imagined the dire warnings from businesses about hard brexit And yet employment is at a record high.

History being rewritten by remainers, I remember being told MPs would respect the result of the referendum...

End free movement by not controlling borders...mental gymnastics

350 million for the NHS to benefits in 50 years...mental gymnastics

British jobs for British workers...when there is low unemployment, so obviously already in work (just don’t mention low pay, underemployment etc)...mental gymnastics

End free movement by not controlling borders... 2 different things, remainer spin.

350 million for the NHS to benefits in 50 years...only said we could, not that we would, remainer inability to read properly.

British jobs for British workers...when there is low unemployment, so obviously already in work (just don’t mention low pay, underemployment etc)... Blame Gordon Brown for Brexit if you want, I wasn't a fan either.

It was and that is why we need Brexit to end free movement of people. Sorry if that offends you

But you said we don't need a border in NI ????

Give us some time we haven't left the EU yet

We had decades to prove what we could do economically before we joined the EEC/EU.... we were awful, only a IMF bailout and North Sea oil saved us..... oh and we joined the EEC !

And yet employment is at a record high

.....and we've achieved that whilst being in the EU ! together with becoming one of the Worlds richest economies c/w a top financial centre too... the UK fucked up the wealth distribution, not the EU and the same idiots you've voted in will still be in charge, they wont change and no, you won't vote them out either, just as you ve failed to do so in the past.

2 different things, remainer spin.

The Brexit paradox.

only said we could, not that we would, remainer inability to read properly.

Ah yes, no leaver was taken in by the bus..

Blame Gordon Brown for Brexit if you want, I wasn't a fan either.

Low pay started with Gordon Brown? Who Knew?

I must have imagined immigration being an issue
It was and that is why we need Brexit to end free movement of people. Sorry if that offends you.

actually I agree with you there. Immigration was an issue. People have seen change happening in ways that weren't ever acknowledged.
the issue imo isn't the immigration as such. Its, again, the incapacity of our politicians.
The ones who decided that putting no restriction when Poland etc... joined, unlike most other EU countries. So Polish people came here to thousands. Because they could (and no it wasn't our crap benefit system hat attracted them!). But it could have been different if politicians had a little bit more foresight.
It's also the politicians who decided to not do anything when towns and villages changed so much so quickly. No increase in budget to cope with the newcomers. Despite the increased need in surgeries, schools etc.. That as nothing to do with immigration. Its simple planning for infrastructures (like the should do where I live now. Allowing more anymore new houses to be built. A small town that is increasing in size by about 50% but no change at all for schools, roads etc...).

Basically, both Remainers are Leavers are right.
Leavers have seen issues that have never been addressed and have, in part rightly, associated that with immigration.
Remainers have seen the issues from a different angle. Then the one that says that immigration is good for the country, brings money etc etc.

Micro pov against macro pov.

The problem is. As far as I can see none of the solutions are going to solve any of the issues people have.

North Sea oil saved us

North Sea oil revenues enabled tax cuts for the well off in the UK. Wonder what Norway did with their oil revenues?

And now, decommissioning costs are offset against revenues plus the lower oil price means that the North Sea is no longer a cash cow.

I must also have imagined the dire warnings from businesses about hard brexit And yet employment is at a record high.

Well as highlighted ... we haven't left yet so employment levels can't be linked with Brexit and leaving the EU.
And of course, how much Brexit will impact the UK will depend on what sort f Brexit we get.

I do have an issue about the high level of employment though.
yes it is very high.
Its also very poor at giving people a wage. as in a REAL wage. One you can live on.
25% of people who are employed are earning a wage below the living wage. Thats a hell of a lot imo.
Im also wondering how many of them can only et a part time job, have a zero hour contract or don't bother turning p to the job centre because they know it will be such a nightmare, they'd rather avoid it.

so all in all, I dont see that as an achievement and something to celebrate tbh.

What it will be after Brexit? who knows. Businesses are certainly worried. And quite a few of them have taken actions already.
seeing that a very small % of companies have actually done anything to deal with Brexit, I think its worrying.
Even more so when Leavers dont seem to be able to agree n what Brexit should look like.

350 million for the NHS to benefits in 50 years...only said we could, not that we would, remainer inability to read properly.

But plenty of Leavers voted Leave BECAUSE they thought more money would go to the NHS!
If I had voted Leave for that reason, I'd be gutted tbh.

It WAS a selling point for the leave campaign. And denying it is a bit like the Tories promising to tackle benefits cheaters only to do a big swipe and reduce benefits for everyone and hit those who did for them (because they thought they wouldnt be affected as they were not cheating!)
You can do a campaign but just saying you could etc... Its trying to dupe people. it might take you into power but in the long run, its going to play against you.
Same with the bus..... People ARE expecting the £350millions for the NHS. THAT is something essential for them in an environment where things are getting worse and worse. Leavers cannot just ignore that.

How do you negotiate better trade deals than what we have, frictionless trade with a massive trading bloc, 26 miles away from us (or zero miles - Ireland).

I can't see that there is a better trade deal than that. What could it possibly be?

But plenty of Leavers voted Leave BECAUSE they thought more money would go to the NHS!
If I had voted Leave for that reason, I'd be gutted tbh

A lot of people voted for Jeremy Corbyn because he implied he would end all student debt. I would be gutted if he had had won and then 'clarified'. It usually balances out on both sides.

So.... quite a SMALL lagoon you have there?
Enjoy! You'll need something to cheer yiu up