The leavers lagoon - a thread for tranquility & optimism.

[surferjet]

Good morning brexiteers.

Well, we’re almost there ( although today will be interesting )
So if you’re not worried in the slightest about anything ( I’m not ) then jump into the pool of tranquility, & let the warm water of optimism & new beginnings wash over you.

Fully appreciate some remainers have real concerns, but in the interest of balance, plenty of us haven’t.

This thread is for us.

It's a swamp really rather than a lagoon...

Before any of you leavers get too high on jacuzzi bubbles can you explain to me why some leavers think we are not leaving? And why would they get angry when I say we are? It is paranoia? I have no insight into BDS sufferers. Thanks.

But plenty of Leavers voted Leave BECAUSE they thought more money would go to the NHS!
If I had voted Leave for that reason, I'd be gutted tbh

A lot of people voted for Jeremy Corbyn because he implied he would end all student debt. I would be gutted if he had had won and then 'clarified'. It usually balances out on both sides

Oh don't be ridiculous! Leavers reasoning is ... well, there isn't any.
Brexit has economic repercussions and is irreversible, takes away rights and also fucks off approx 1/2 the population... the wealthier, better educated half, who aren't going to be happy bailing out the poor for their own stupidity.

Corbyn breaking his promise on student debt wouldn't actually change anything at all, the status quo would remain and the disgruntled get to vote him out 5 years later.

Still after 2.5 years, no tangible benefits...... just "give it time"

That as nothing to do with immigration. Its simple planning for infrastructures (like the should do where I live now. Allowing more anymore new houses to be built. A small town that is increasing in size by about 50% but no change at all for schools, roads etc...).

Absolutely a Westminster policy which is pure dogma. My town has rapidly expanded to the north and needs a new primary school desperately. 20 years ago the Local Authority would have been able to purchase some land and build a school. Now it has to be provided by a Multi Academy Trust (who voted for them, hey?) or has to be a Free School. A MAT which was willing to provide a school was identified; its finances didn't stack up, so 3 years on, no school, and no sign of one. All this is absolutely nothing to do with immigration.

People whinge about lack of GP surgeries. My surgery nearly closed but managed to keep going by combining with another. Of the 8 doctors in the practice, 3 are British - the others are from the EU, Africa and India. This is replicated in the other surgeries locally - the home grown British GPs are retiring early. In many places you only still have a surgery because Doctors were willing to move here. In the case of the ones from India and sub Saharan Africa I would say that their own countries need them far more.

Just how could people not see like Surferjet and I did, that there was never going to be a way to have a deal

Speaking for myself, but I think I'm in a fair bit of company here, I could see only too clearly that there was never going to be a deal that delivered all that had been promised. Or pretty much any of it, actually. Well, blue passports maybe, but even they're going to have to be imported. At least they're not going to come into force til October, which should be just about long enough for them to get through Dover.

It would be funny if it wasn't actually happening to us.

Why is it remainers always want to shut down leavers conversation. There are a million remainer threads to moan on, yet as soon as a Brexiteer starts a thread they all want to jump on it and shut down their conversation.

I suppose its all symptomatic of leaving the EU.

Why is it leavers never answer a question? They're worse than the politicians. I'll jump on any thread, I'm not fussy.

Of course it's all symptomatic of leaving the EU!

And we're not shutting down your conversation. On the contrary, there wouldn't even be a conversation if we hadn't crashed your thread. Not many takers for warm drinks and 'tranquility' (sic) in the end, were there?

It's a swamp really rather than a lagoon...

Careful - Trump might be along soon to drain it

Corbyn breaking his promise on student debt wouldn't actually change anything at all

So it’s perfectly acceptable for politicians to tell barefaced lies of that magnitude just to worm themselves into power, is it? Sounds very much like the Leave campaign.

I love it how asking questions and not getting answers is "shutting down Leaver debate "

Speaking for myself, but I think I'm in a fair bit of company here, I could see only too clearly that there was never going to be a deal that delivered all that had been promised.

None of it helped by May's uncompromising attitude, or attempting to appease the ERG. I am not the only one who thinks that if she had said the vote was close, she was going to examine all the options and then come back with proposals before triggering A50 we might then have been able to find areas which both sides could compromise on and find a consensus. Ideally she might have got the ERG to produce a detailed working paper of what they would like to see, instead of their constant carping from the sidelines about what she has produced being rubbish, but not being able to tell us what they want. (Which they can't, because, "more money for us few wealthy entitled mostly middle-aged white blokes, and F* Off to the rest of you", is too long for the side of the bus.)

I don't like or want the WA, but even I can see that the WA delivered far more of what was promised than anyone had a right to expect given the UK's red lines.

I don't understand leaver's opposition to it. You wanted a hard brexit and the WA delivers one.

The backstop is there to protect Irish interests, but it also protects British ones. Does anyone really want to risk going back to a time when British policemen were killed on the border and British prime ministers targeted by bombs at party conferences? Do British people really want fellow Britons in NI to have to live with sectarian violence?

It's really important to understand that the backstop protects peace and therefore protects British interests too. People who do not support the backstop are not patriots.

It's not a question of not supporting the back stop as far as I'm concerned it's the lack of an end date or any way of us getting out of it without the say so of the EU that's the problem.

Norway was in a kind of back stop for 10years!!

Ah the Corbyn promising to cancel student debt:

fullfact.org/education/student-debt-what-did-labour-say/

Except he didn't, and this is trotted out by people as a "Tu Quo Que" fallacy in order to excuse their side.

The Leave campaign said "Lets give our NHS the £350m the EU takes every week" and on the side of the bus said: "We send the EU £350m a week, lets fund our NHS instead" .

There was no "possibly" or "could" in there, the intention is explicit.

Cowardly leavers hide behind the fact that it didn't say " we will give our NHS the money from the EU", but people like the dreadful Walkingdeadfangirl are intellectually cowardly and attempt to hide behind semantics.

The intention was explicit, the emotional appeal was explicit, denying it afterwards shows that you and the leave campaign are utterly duplicitous and do not have the courage of your convictions.

I love it how asking questions and not getting answers is "shutting down Leaver debate

This is not a thread for interrogating laeavers, there’s been a 1000 of those already.
This is a thread for people optimistic about brexit. If that’s not you, then other threads are available.

There would be nothing to prevent the U.K. from unilaterally ending the agreement, except the consequences (not having a trade deal).

In that respect it's identical to where we are now. You can have a deal including a customs union, and retain some of the benefits of having a trade deal with the EU, of you can not have one, and lose those benefits.

The backstop position is totally illogical, especially coming from someone like weetabix who says they want the "front stop" (whole-UK customs union)! If you have the front stop the backstop is irrelevant.

I am actually quiet excited about this coming year
Big changes all around.

Sorry for asking questions @surferjet . I get it all the time on Prepper threads. I didn't know there was a ban.

{This is a thread for people optimistic about brexit.}
So where are the optimistic plans for how the UK is going to improve starting March 30th?
I have suggested previously that the government, seeing what a hole it is in, should go on a spending spree and totally transform medical recruitment and training. I think the UK is 'short' of about 100,000 medical staff of various capacities.
I would see provisions made for teaching double that number with accommodation provided close to teaching hospitals. 1 bed apartments and 2 bed so couples with say 1 child would be able to live there. The expectation would be the accommodation would be at a low rent so that medical staff would be able to save for future housing once trained. The UK can then happily export medical staff worldwide. Part of the funding could come from the overseas aid budget. The building work necessary could be taken by retraining semi skilled that are likely to be losing jobs when the car manufacturing declines, which is preferable to them just being paid by the state. Of course such large numbers of medical staff concentrated in 'medic villages' will need infrastructure like shops and nurseries etc.
This expansion could include 'cottage hospitals' perhaps in groupings with new, warm bungalow style accommodation for the elderly so medical staff would be local to deal with emergencies but be based near other families.
Alternatively the UK can sit in a cold house and complain endlessly how 'mean' the EU is.
Over to you with your suggestions:

Which big changes are you looking forward to then mummmy2017?

Not on medication I hope?

Not working for one of those firms which has said they will relocate, although that might give you opportunities elsewhere, of course.

Seeing the collapse of the Tory party and Labour too? Yes a change which could be welcome unless they were both replaced by the extreme right and left c.g. Nazism & Stalninism.

The nuns would tell me "you must not think bad thoughts".
Does that help?

I like your ideas for medical education 1tis - given sufficient time for preparation and implementation some sort of success might be made of Brexit. The medical reforms require the will to do so, but the Tories especially are more interested in fighting each other, and vision - which seems totally absent in the present Government.

I would see provisions made for teaching double that number with accommodation provided close to teaching hospitals

Who is going to supervise and teach those trainee medics? Because you also have to double the number of qualified medics who will be ensuring that they taught correctly and get adequate, supervised hands-on practice without risking harm to patients.

We are seeing people volunteer to help in hospitals.
Maybe some of these people will become doctors one day.
Yes to the training and the housing for medical side.
Include the housing and the costs of utilities as for students. £120 a week all in... at £10 per hour, for a 35 hour week it would leave £230 as usable money...
Doctors earn more so could easily save more quickly to buy a house.
The building would help employment in the country, apprenticeships for trades, let's do it as not for profit, bonuses for coming on time under budget