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Brexit

Westministenders: May dug a deep stinky hole and UK politics has tumbled in

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2019 15:17

May almost certainly won't resign even after this huge defeat.

She's survived umpteen other humiliating defeats.
Her record strongly suggests she'll cling on to office with broken fingernails until Brexit (or Revoke) happens

After the ERG failed to topple her last month, she can legally stay as Tory party leader at least until December.
Besides, would any of her likely successors as Tory Party leader - Leadsome, Boris, JRM, Gove - be any better ... or bring even worse horrors ?

Corbyn has called a No Confidence vote
NC debate to be held at 7pm today.

He'll lose, because the DUP and the ERG - who voted down her WA - have genuine Confidence in her, of course 🤔

The Labour Party conference agreed their policy would be to get a GE, but failing that to go for a PV.
However, Corbyns latest statement is still against a PV
Will he finally give in, or try to out-stubborn May ?

The HoC doesn't want No Deal - but can't yet agree what they do want.
if they and / or May don't specifically choose something else, then No Deal is what automatically happens

May had told the cabinet she'd just keep pushing the WA, but it's now a dead parrot of a WA.

So she's "reaching out" to the other parties whom she's rudely rejected for the last 2.5 years
Maybe ongoing cross-party talks will ignore her and succeed on agreeing a new approach
BUT
The EU have said they will only renegotiate if the UK drops some of its red lines
Otherwise it's either this unchange WA or No Deal

Many analysts think this impasse means that May will have to ask the EU for an A50 extension.
She keeps saying she won't delay Brexit - but after she became PM she kept denying she'd hold a GE, right up until she announced it.

EU officials have hinted they would extend until the end of June.
However, an extension would have to be unanimously approved.
Would any of the 27 countries veto, in exasperation with the UK's ridiculous performance the last 2 years ?

I know on Westministenders we're all exasperated with it !

OP posts:
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SwedishEdith · 17/01/2019 22:00

Oh, that's very interesting hazard.

QueenieIsLost · 17/01/2019 22:02

Hazard that’s pretty shocking!

thecatfromjapan · 17/01/2019 22:07

That's fascinating, Hazard.

I, too, had been wondering if there might be a link between extreme No Dealers and domestic violence, frankly.

It concurs with the Ashcroft polls, too. They tended to strongly agree with 'women's rights have gone too far'.

It's grim they've seized the UK.

Quietrebel · 17/01/2019 22:09

hazardswan

That's a fascinating insight. I've long thought there was a link between far right politics as seen today across western democracies and white male reaction to female/gay/ minorities empowerment. It's an existential fart from terrified middle aged men. Not all leave voters/trump voters/ gilets jaunes etc fall into that category BUT I think these movements share similar misogynistic undercurrents.

Quietrebel · 17/01/2019 22:16

Interesting to hear that to organise a simple referendum would take over a year but getting the country ready for a no deal situation within two months is something the government can actually consider. Doesnt make sense.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-second-referendum-theresa-may-document-date-prepare-peoples-vote-a8733201.html

1tisILeClerc · 17/01/2019 22:26

In defense of the Gillet Jaunes, they are a movement with several 'layers'.
Travelling around, those I see are women taking kids to school and at the supermarket. Many guys doing similar and truck drivers of course.
The real hotheads you see in France have a different agenda and far fewer.
Those in the UK are some of each I presume.

1tisILeClerc · 17/01/2019 22:30

Mr Macron has issued an 'open letter' requesting dialogue from all citizens of France across all it's territories to put forward how they would like to see France move forward.
A bit late but certainly an interesting initiative.

mathanxiety · 17/01/2019 22:34

Hazardswan that makes a lot of sense, and it is interesting to note that fundamentalist Christians in the US (with 'conservative' views on womens rights) tend to be Trump's biggest fans. Alongside them, however, are white suburban men. Clearly the idea that women must be second class citizens or else men will be is one that runs very deep.

www.npr.org/2019/01/17/685539207/poll-trump-approval-down-slips-with-base
Some of this is wishful thinking, I fear. It doesn't take much to whip these morons into a frenzy of Trump support.

OlennasWimple · 17/01/2019 22:42

Interesting perspective Hazard, thanks

Hazardswan · 17/01/2019 23:01

I got deleted!

Anyway...

I'm glad others had noticed the general theme in which I was alluding to.

Also I was spectacularly disowned by the relatives I alluded to and it's one of my proudest moments Grin

Wayward women are the best.

Which begs the question why do some women support movements which are intrinsically linked misogyny? I've never understood as there's no obvious gains in it.

TheElementsSong · 17/01/2019 23:04

I got deleted!

Life’s big winners, on the eve of their glorious triumph as the Sunlit Uplands unfold before them, are very delicate and hair-trigger snowflakes.

thecatfromjapan · 17/01/2019 23:07

Goodness, Hazardswan. Wonder who requested that?

Anyway, thanks for sharing. It WAS fascinating.

mathanxiety · 17/01/2019 23:14

Why do women support misogynistic parties or movements?
They were brought up and educated in an environment in which critical thinking was discouraged or prevented, and also have a personal inclination to support authoritarian, hierarchical, paternalistic dynamics.

What they gain is the approval of the men in their environments.

UnnecessaryFennel · 17/01/2019 23:42

MNHQ - WHY was @Hazardswan deleted?? The post was very interesting and perfectly legitimate. She was describing her own thoughts about her own family members - no personal attacks on other posters, no racism, etc.

What on earth? Some Leavers really are pissed off that they're not 'getting their dicks sucked', aren't they?

SwedishEdith · 17/01/2019 23:44

Why was that deleted? Very, very odd behaviour - reporter and mn.

Hazardswan · 18/01/2019 00:02

I had a feeling it would be. For me it's common knowledge and I forget that it isn't for everyone.

math your so right! I grew up around that sort of thing but not in it, iykwim. I feel a lot of distance between the perspectives. Hopefully bridges can be built. With brexit there's been talk about people left behind and perhaps there's scope to think specifically about the women left behind. Because without those women the type of men I was referring to would be nothing.

And I'm not saying all men are nothing without women just the type of men I was referring to earlier. Y'know the misogynistic kind of men.

RedToothBrush · 18/01/2019 00:24

We had a visit from someone who thought we were calling people Nazis etc etc and then had a massive go at me and got deleted. It's possibly someone trying to prove a point...

SwedishEdith · 18/01/2019 00:34

But why don't mn tell them to sling their hook? So you can report a post and mn must then delete it?

RedToothBrush · 18/01/2019 01:00

It's just petty mindedness. It's trying to get a rise out of people here and trying to upset. Ignore.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/01/2019 01:10

Facts that hurt feelz can be deleted

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 18/01/2019 01:17

Reminder of the different attitudes Ashcroft found, Leave vs Remain, about whether they consider feminism is a "force for ill":

Westministenders: May dug a deep stinky hole and UK politics has tumbled in
OP posts:
Hazardswan · 18/01/2019 01:37

So UKIP are bad people. This we know. But we got a real glimpse of the depth, the sheer bottomlessness, of this pit last week with the sentencing of former UKIP councillor Stephen Searle.

Searle, you may remember, was found guilty of murdering his Scottish wife, Anna in December 2017.

The details of the case are predictably tawdry: an affair he had with his son’s partner (and mother of his own grandchild) led to “marital tensions” that led to Searle strangling Anna on the night before New Year’s Eve.

Before you accuse me of being unfair to UKIP, of blaming a whole political party for the actions of one deranged member, let’s consider the response from another Ukipper to the 14-year sentence handed out to a man who represented them on Suffolk County Council for four years.

Bill Mountford was the UKIP leader of Suffolk County Council when Searle was there. They were friends and colleagues.

In fact, they’re still friends.

Following the verdict, Mountford told BBC Suffolk he continued to consider Searle “a friend” and added: “These things happen.”

Again, you are reminded of the tone of voice of someone reporting a flat tyre rather than, say, the murder of a woman.

But Mountford wasn’t done yet. He went on: “I still regard Steve as fundamentally a decent man who has found himself in circumstances beyond his control.”

At this point, just when you think your jaw can go no lower, Mountford says: “I’m well aware domestic disputes can get out of hand but I feel equally sorry for both Steve and his now deceased wife.”

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/ukip-councillor-jailed-murder-just-12957719

I don't know these people. I am familiar with the type. Describing unjustifiable violence as a mere dispute seems to be a pattern/habit of some ukippers.

Quietrebel · 18/01/2019 01:47

Blimey hazard, out of everything you've described, "equally sorry" really got to me. Poor woman! What bastards!

Hazardswan · 18/01/2019 02:08

“If you make love on Friday and make love Sunday, you can’t say Saturday is rape"

Demetri Marchessini, the party’s sixth-largest individual donor in 2013.

Again not my relative but I am familiar with this attitude.

Ukip have got making the working class men (hello hazard relatives) feel included down to a fine art. How come?

Anti EU stance, Misogyny or both?

Amen, goodnight and thread closed Wine

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