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Brexit

Westministenders: May dug a deep stinky hole and UK politics has tumbled in

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2019 15:17

May almost certainly won't resign even after this huge defeat.

She's survived umpteen other humiliating defeats.
Her record strongly suggests she'll cling on to office with broken fingernails until Brexit (or Revoke) happens

After the ERG failed to topple her last month, she can legally stay as Tory party leader at least until December.
Besides, would any of her likely successors as Tory Party leader - Leadsome, Boris, JRM, Gove - be any better ... or bring even worse horrors ?

Corbyn has called a No Confidence vote
NC debate to be held at 7pm today.

He'll lose, because the DUP and the ERG - who voted down her WA - have genuine Confidence in her, of course 🤔

The Labour Party conference agreed their policy would be to get a GE, but failing that to go for a PV.
However, Corbyns latest statement is still against a PV
Will he finally give in, or try to out-stubborn May ?

The HoC doesn't want No Deal - but can't yet agree what they do want.
if they and / or May don't specifically choose something else, then No Deal is what automatically happens

May had told the cabinet she'd just keep pushing the WA, but it's now a dead parrot of a WA.

So she's "reaching out" to the other parties whom she's rudely rejected for the last 2.5 years
Maybe ongoing cross-party talks will ignore her and succeed on agreeing a new approach
BUT
The EU have said they will only renegotiate if the UK drops some of its red lines
Otherwise it's either this unchange WA or No Deal

Many analysts think this impasse means that May will have to ask the EU for an A50 extension.
She keeps saying she won't delay Brexit - but after she became PM she kept denying she'd hold a GE, right up until she announced it.

EU officials have hinted they would extend until the end of June.
However, an extension would have to be unanimously approved.
Would any of the 27 countries veto, in exasperation with the UK's ridiculous performance the last 2 years ?

I know on Westministenders we're all exasperated with it !

OP posts:
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DGRossetti · 16/01/2019 15:51

Ultimately, nothing has changed. There's still no way of any withdrawal agreement pleasing enough MPs to get passed even if the EU were to allow renegotiation. Which is why they won't.

The closest analogy I can imagine, is that the UK is handcuffed to the EU, and - for whatever reason - chosen to jump off a cliff.

So we are there, dangling in mid air quite painfully by the wrists. And as we dangle, we are shouting at the EU about all the things we will do to them once we are out of these damn handcuffs.

The EU has - tactfully - suggested the UK might want to climb back and talk properly.

Instead - as things stand - the UK has got a pocket knife out, and is determined to saw the EUs hand off to escape it.

(That would be the political cartoon I'd use in a history book in 2119 ...)

DarlingNikita · 16/01/2019 15:51

Thanks BigChoc!

Mrsr8 · 16/01/2019 15:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 16/01/2019 15:55

cripes, here we are again.

DGRossetti · 16/01/2019 15:56

@DGRossetti but the deal was rejected so how can it be on the table? Am confused

Me too.

As Stewart Lee noted, if you want certainty, then go an see Roy "Chubby" Brown in his new touring show An evening of certainty - the strapline of which is Leave, as you came, only more so Grin

I'm getting a vague sense of unease from the Brexiteer camp that they somehow wanted a more dramatic response from the EU. The currently low-key (not even on the front pages anymore) approach only serves to point out how little they have to lever anymore.

We're in a drive to the 29th now. Both Remainers and Brexiteers feel that each day we inch closer, theirs is the side that will prevail. The rest of us are just so much collateral - and probably a bit of a nuisance with our whinging about jobs, medicine, travel, etc

HerLadySheep · 16/01/2019 16:06

@DGRossetti I love the cliff and handcuffs analogy! I will try and keep up in this thread, they move so fast at the moment.
I fear we are now heading full steam towards no deal because nobody has any idea how to stop it, despite wanting to. I've rarely felt more despondent.

Mrsr8 · 16/01/2019 16:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DGRossetti · 16/01/2019 16:12

You will notice my analogy also covers pain to the EU. But once that hand has been severed, and the UK plummets to the ground, the EU can walk away. When the UK comes back to life, it can start to climb the cliff.

Again.

And if I were the political cartoonist for that 2119 history book, I would draw the cliff face as having the gravestones of all the people who fought and worked to try to make the UK a better place - in Europe and in the World. Unfortunately I'm crap at drawing.

AwdBovril · 16/01/2019 16:14

Thanks for the new thread, BCF.

TokyoSushi · 16/01/2019 16:15

PMK thanks @BigChocFrenzy

WickedGoodDoge · 16/01/2019 16:15

I thought the motion at the Labour Party conference only said that in the event of no general election, all alternatives including a PV/referendum would be looked at- not that a second referendum was the next step? I.e. Corbyn can keep waffling on his position without going against agreed policy.

colouringinpro · 16/01/2019 16:17

.

MissMalice · 16/01/2019 16:20

PMK. Thanks BigChoc.

JC said in PMQs all options inc PV are on the table.

MissMalice · 16/01/2019 16:20

But what options go on the PV? Something else to divide over.

Mrsr8 · 16/01/2019 16:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TatianaLarina · 16/01/2019 16:21

Lewis Goodall@lewis_goodall

Speaking to a Labour source, they said two things: (1) Labour will bring a confidence motion at least once more, when PM’s plan B is better known and (2) Corbyn is v unlikely ever to support 2nd ref in any circumstances. Another source said if he tried half Shadow cab would walk.

Jo Maugham QC@JolyonMaugham

That "other source," if right, tells you all you need to know about who Jeremy has promoted, what a narrow project his is, and how different its priorities are from those of Labour voters, members and MPs.

Sostenueto · 16/01/2019 16:22

Made it! Thanks for thread! Good intro!

paintinmyhairAgain · 16/01/2019 16:25

everyone moans about may but cameron started this shit storm, then ran off to hide, may stepped up to the plate and has tried to do something about it, where are all these whingy mps hiding ? it seems no one else wants to step into the breech and take over.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 16/01/2019 16:29

I don't trust corbyn the momentum cockwomble

Momentum are also campaigning for a PV Grin

Motheroffourdragons · 16/01/2019 16:30

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

bellinisurge · 16/01/2019 16:35

Deep sigh. And chocolate. And cat pictures. That's it. That's all I've got.

lonelyplanetmum · 16/01/2019 16:35

Thanks BigChoc

and on we go...

prettybird · 16/01/2019 16:37

The only people that May seems to have called in her so called reaching out across the parties have been Nicola Sturgeon and presumably the DUP (given that she kept on name checking them at PMQs). She hadn't , as of the start of the No Confidence Debate, called Jeremy Corbyn (one of the SNP MPs asked Corbyn the direct question) Confused

Plaice Cat Mat King.....and just because we need some funny, calming pictures of cats, here is a "How to grow your own cat" picture of our old favourite, who'd taken, for some strange reason, to sitting in one of the pots at the door, which I hadn't got round to planting up as I'd run out of violas SmileConfused He was knocked down a week later Sad a street away by a car doing c60mph in a 30mph zone, outside the nursery at nursery drop-off time Angry (which we subsequently found out he'd been visiting regularly because he was a tart and the children loved him)

Westministenders: May dug a deep stinky hole and UK politics has tumbled in
DGRossetti · 16/01/2019 16:39

everyone moans about may but cameron started this shit storm, then ran off to hide, may stepped up to the plate and has tried to do something about it,

so far, little disagreement from me. The problem is Theresa May then proceeded to:

  • lie (I will not call an election)
  • treat the voters with contempt (2017 was not a sign the UK was desperate for a Tory government)
  • exclude and ignore all counsel except for some unelected advisors
  • insult generations and swathes of UK citizens who had settled from elsewhere

etc etc

where are all these whingy mps hiding ? it seems no one else wants to step into the breech and take over.

It's hard to avoid the impression that she is pursing a scorched earth policy intended to ensure retreat is impossible.

AutumnCrow · 16/01/2019 16:46

Just read on Twitter that Call Me Dave apparently regrettes rien