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Brexit

Westministenders: May dug a deep stinky hole and UK politics has tumbled in

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2019 15:17

May almost certainly won't resign even after this huge defeat.

She's survived umpteen other humiliating defeats.
Her record strongly suggests she'll cling on to office with broken fingernails until Brexit (or Revoke) happens

After the ERG failed to topple her last month, she can legally stay as Tory party leader at least until December.
Besides, would any of her likely successors as Tory Party leader - Leadsome, Boris, JRM, Gove - be any better ... or bring even worse horrors ?

Corbyn has called a No Confidence vote
NC debate to be held at 7pm today.

He'll lose, because the DUP and the ERG - who voted down her WA - have genuine Confidence in her, of course 🤔

The Labour Party conference agreed their policy would be to get a GE, but failing that to go for a PV.
However, Corbyns latest statement is still against a PV
Will he finally give in, or try to out-stubborn May ?

The HoC doesn't want No Deal - but can't yet agree what they do want.
if they and / or May don't specifically choose something else, then No Deal is what automatically happens

May had told the cabinet she'd just keep pushing the WA, but it's now a dead parrot of a WA.

So she's "reaching out" to the other parties whom she's rudely rejected for the last 2.5 years
Maybe ongoing cross-party talks will ignore her and succeed on agreeing a new approach
BUT
The EU have said they will only renegotiate if the UK drops some of its red lines
Otherwise it's either this unchange WA or No Deal

Many analysts think this impasse means that May will have to ask the EU for an A50 extension.
She keeps saying she won't delay Brexit - but after she became PM she kept denying she'd hold a GE, right up until she announced it.

EU officials have hinted they would extend until the end of June.
However, an extension would have to be unanimously approved.
Would any of the 27 countries veto, in exasperation with the UK's ridiculous performance the last 2 years ?

I know on Westministenders we're all exasperated with it !

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DGRossetti · 16/01/2019 17:32

The UK in its current form is less than 100 years old.

And as one of the most stable countries in Europe an anomaly.

Looks like there's nothing special about being English after all. Who'd have thunk ?

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2019 17:34

From the previous thread:

A really odd insight into those considering Leave:
Leave because some of the EU do something the UK also does, but you don't like 🤨

Of course I want to remain because the EU does many things better than the UK

  • I hadn't realised that negotiations were one of those things, but I do now

It doesn't mean I think the EU is perfect, just that it fits my beliefs far better than Britain trying to go it alone, in a wolrd full of trade blocs and much bigger countries.

As an adult, I don't demand that anything I support has to be perfect and unblemished - unless of course I find an alternative that is.

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IsobelKarev · 16/01/2019 17:36

One could argue that given the GFA being the thing which is currently holding the country together, we have actually only existed in our current form for a little over 20 years.

DGRossetti · 16/01/2019 17:37

As an adult, I don't demand that anything I support has to be perfect and unblemished - unless of course I find an alternative that is.

The problem is, a lot of people aren't that adult ... there really is a childlike naivete which is generally charming, but which can - and has been - exploited for ill.

Haven't seen it in discussion for a while, but there is a place for the phrase (and concept) of "magical thinking" ...

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2019 17:37

Competing with US farming and INdian & Chinese manufacturing / services means a race to the bottom

  • for the bottom 90% or so of the population.

The top 10% will do v nicely thank you
and the 0.1% will shout "loot, loot !"

So, a return to the Victorian social pyramid structure, which should please JRM and his ilk

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DGRossetti · 16/01/2019 17:38

One could argue that given the GFA being the thing which is currently holding the country together, we have actually only existed in our current form for a little over 20 years.

No real argument here. Although I hadn't really though of it like that, it's a very good (and novel) point.

SalrycLuxx · 16/01/2019 17:40

What did Mhairi day?

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2019 17:41

Well yes, DG there are also EU officials who drink too much and / or commit adultery
I don't approve of such behaviour
but it is really daft to cite these naughty people as reasons to Leave

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BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2019 17:43

The Irish Border@BorderIrish

Voting against the Backstop is voting for the right to sh@t on your neighbour’s doorstep and run away

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OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 16/01/2019 17:44

Thanks again red

prettybird · 16/01/2019 17:44

Welcome LASH38 Flowers

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 16/01/2019 17:46

Argh sorry. bigchoc I meant. Wrote my thanks in auto form despite knowing who started this thread.

AutumnCrow · 16/01/2019 17:51

Sal Mhairi pointed out that both May and Corbyn had wasted valuable time in bringing the WA vote and this Motion of No Confidence vote to the House, whilst Scotland, the second largest country in the United Kingdom, was not having its interests represented in 'this place'. Mhairi has trust and faith in Scots' abilities, talents and intellect (paraphrasing from memory here). Scotland deserves better.

(My grandparents are (were) from the same neighbourhood as Mhairi and I think they would have liked that speech, whilst being astounded that a young woman could be speaking out in Parliament.)

DGRossetti · 16/01/2019 17:52

@BCF

What ?

GD12 · 16/01/2019 17:53

^^^Didn't the insane hard Brexiters say a hard border wouldn't be necessary?

Loletta · 16/01/2019 18:07

Have you just seen David Cameron being healthy and tanned and going for a run this morning? Angry

BestIsWest · 16/01/2019 18:07

Pmk

Loletta · 16/01/2019 18:07

on BBC News

OhYouBadBadKitten · 16/01/2019 18:08

what time is the NC vote expected? I'm bored of listening to them all.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 16/01/2019 18:10

7pm

SalrycLuxx · 16/01/2019 18:12

Thx

BiglyBadgers · 16/01/2019 18:12

I pop out for a few hours and we are 2 pages into a new thread and BigChoc has taken over. Change happens fast these days.

Tonsilss · 16/01/2019 18:13

If Scotland joins Ireland and NI, maybe the Boris bridge idea could be useful?
Scotland would be left with the issues of the hard border, sadly.
As a Scottish resident, I'm becoming rather interested in possible escape plans...

BollocksToBrexit · 16/01/2019 18:16

The silver lining to this absolute feckin cloud of chaos ... the May gollum has returned:

www.radiotimes.com/news/film/2019-01-16/andy-serkis-brexit-deal-vote-result-theresa-may-gollum-queen-bohemian-rhapsody/