The deal has been rejected by Parliament

[MongerTruffle]

What will happen now?

BertrandRussell "
Interesting that you assume any positive story about immigrants must be made up but you’re not even a tiny bit racist!

You just need to read through a few posts on this thread to see why the uk is in this godawful mess. It’s just unbelievable that some people are proud of the reasons they voted to leave

wotev I am 41 and grew up in Rotherham, in a predominantly Pakistani muslim area. Several women I know personally were victims of explotation and sexual abuse from the age of 13 onwards by Pakistani muslim men.

One of my dearest, oldest friends is a Pakistani muslim man. Because the actions of a few don't mean that all Pakistani muslim men are rapists and paedophiles. There is IMO a massive problem with integration of different cultures into the UK culture. But that is the fault of the Government. Not the individuals.

And you cannot make sweeping statements about cultures and race without looking racist. Because it is racist. You need to structure your agruements (and I do agree with some of your points) better.

The Construction Industry has massive problems. Mainly greed and a monopoly from big companies. It is those that are driving down prices, not Malek from Latvia.

I had hoped that the downfall of Carrilion would be a sign of things changing and legislation coming into place to protect the labour force but it's not happened yet.

Presumably the brexit shitshow is a distraction.

Well this has gone South quickly.

I’m not sure we are ever going to reach a happy compromise as the exact same things half of us see as good things of the EU ( eg FOM....yay people can study abroad, learn a language, expand my cultural horizons etc) the other half see as bad (job and benefit stealing criminals...)

wotev If I were to ‘go back where I came from’ what would you like me to do do with my British 2 year old, leave him here with DH? Take him with me? Bring DH to Italy to be an immigrant?
That’s what people forget. There’s 3 million of us (from toddlers to 90 year olds) who have made their lives here in good faith, many with British partners. And the way we are talked about is disgraceful.

@Wotev for every "scumbag" I'd wager there are a fair few educated, civilised, intelligent and integrative folk that come over and hold down jobs, marry British people, raise families, pay taxes.

Well said Camomila.

We have been entwined with the EU, we have been the EU, for several decades. We cannot simply cut ties. The two extreme sides need to stop chanting rhetoric.

You're an idiot if you think everyone is moving here 'in good faith'. That's nonsense.

Eatmycheese - I agree. I have no problem with immigration. I have a problem with uncontrolled immigration.

Did you hear about Sajid Javid saying we could no longer ignore ethnicity as a factor? www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/03/sajid-javid-defends-noting-the-ethnicity-of-child-grooming-gang Whether it's ethnicity itself or integration at fault, things are slowly moving there.

But, Pakistan is not in the EU. The EU question is not about all immigration into this country.

I'd love if other Leavers would join to say why they voted to leave. I know you guys are out there!

I’ve never been to Dubai or Bahrain

In my mind, leaving the EU is inevitably going to lead to the break up of the United Kingdom.

Do other people accept this as very probable?

What’s the connection between immigrants from Pakistan and Brexit?

I do. It's coming close to that anyway. Driven, as usual, by domestic policies over the last few decades.

I didn't but I don't know enough. It does seem plausible, with the issues in Ireland and the Scottish independence votes.

@BertrandRussell I was wondering that 🤔

I can only assume the argument isn't about nationality, it's about ethnicity. And it's not one I want to have.

Escalation of entrenchments.
wotev was complaining about all immigration into the UK, and the way immigrants seem to be supported over locals even in the case when they break the law. I started trying to separate the EU / non EU strands, and that seemed to get picked up.

The EU question is not just about immigration. Leaving the EU will not stop immigration.

I sat on the fence in the run to the 2016 referendum, reluctant to leave, because I voted to remain in 1975; simultaneously I was reluctant to remain because what I voted for in 1975 was a travesty of the customs union of broadly similar western European nations who were fed up with tearing each other apart in continental wars. I did not vote to join an EU hellbent on federalism run by an unelected cabal of enarque bureaucrats.

In the end, I offered to vote as my DS wished, as he was three weeks short of his 18th birthday and seemed likely to have to live with the outcome of the vote much longer than me. He asked me to vote Leave, and I cast my vote accordingly, but with a very heavy heart.

I wonder what will happen to Ireland in the case of no deal Brexit.

I think it will have Increased immigration personally, especially in the case of ‘mixed’ families - the British partner can keep speaking English and all their rights, and the EU partner can come over via FOM. Helps if the EU partner speaks English though so might not be as useful a solution to British expats. Very useful the other way around though.

(This is worse case scenario though, I hope even in the case of no deal everyone will be allowed to stay and work where they are! With no sudden tricks like no more benefits or you need health insurance)

Ooh look, a leaver making racist points and ones unconnected to the EU.

Such fun.

What happened in Rotherham and in other towns and cities is a failure of the british social and justice systems.

We cannot depot UK citizens back to Pakistan nor undo the immigration decisions made in the 50s 60s and 70s.

Leaving EU means that UK Police will not have access to EU criminal databases as easily as before, so a european (criminal) tourist can just walk in here with little in the way of checks that we can do now.

17m leavers voted for 17m different reasons, no one in Devon or cornwall voted leave because of Pakistani grooming gangs in Perranporth.