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Brexit
Original poster

Reasons to remain and reasons to leave

404 replies

MyNameIsArthur · 07/10/2018 16:10

I am hoping this thread can be constructive, respectful and insult free on both sides and to be informative.

I would like to hear everyone's views on why they think it important to remain or leave. I want to hear what the positives and negatives are for remain or leave, in the short, medium and long term in your opinion.

Also, if leave will definitely happen, then what do you think would be the best deal we should try for? What future relationship would you like with the EU?

OP posts:
Bearbehind · 14/10/2018 12:16

Sorry - I did miss that.

I do apologise.

The last thing I want to do is to discourage Leavers from questioning this mess.

AlexaShutUp · 14/10/2018 12:18

The last thing I want to do is to discourage Leavers from questioning this mess.

Indeed. What matters now is not how we got here, but how the bloody hell we're going to get out!

Bearbehind · 14/10/2018 12:48

I do actually feel quite bad about this.

Here's me moaning Leavers won't change their mind, then when one does, I miss it because I missed them saying they were a Leaver.

Blush
AlexaShutUp · 14/10/2018 12:52
Grin
Talkstotrees · 14/10/2018 13:36

Found it! Here you are:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/22/20-reasons-you-should-vote-to-leave-the-european-union/amp/

Who could argue with that list? Confused

FFS - That was the best they could come up with, the day before the poll! And they still won?

lazysummer · 14/10/2018 21:51

Great work! It's unbelievable that people fell for this rubbish.

KennDodd · 15/10/2018 08:01

Whoever wrote that Telegraph link really hates environmental protections.

Talkstotrees · 15/10/2018 08:29

Astounding isn’t it? Several of their reasons to vote leave are fairly high on my (very long) list of reasons to remain.

PCPlumsTruncheon · 15/10/2018 18:01

So are there really people who want this country to commit financial suicide so that they can ditch their ‘stupid’ recycling bins, dump their old fridges wherever they want, have a more powerful vacuum cleaner and queue up in a Brits only passport control to wave their blue passport?
Jesus wept.

Peregrina · 15/10/2018 18:16

And people really wan HGV drivers not to have to stop for a 45 minute break after 4 hours on the road, but just keep on? Never mind that they might fall asleep at the wheel and cause an accident and kill someone.

bellinisurge · 15/10/2018 19:31

I've tangentially been involved in something where a driver exceeded their hours and killed someone on the road. It's bloody devastating. Obviously. We should never move to a place where excess hours on the road is acceptable.

Original poster
MyNameIsArthur · 15/10/2018 19:33

I thought this thread was doing well until the post with the telegraph news link

OP posts:
bellinisurge · 15/10/2018 19:37

@MyNameIsArthur - it's a dirty non-secret that this stupid list is why many people voted the way they did. Pretending we can discuss Brexit without referring to this kind of nonsense is ridiculous.

Original poster
MyNameIsArthur · 15/10/2018 19:51

I find it disappointing because I think those who voted leave might engage more in discussion and open up about their reasons for voting leave if they weren't confronted with posts and comments like the Telegraph news one. I think it insults millions of people who had their reasons for voting leave that were legitimate to them and weren't down to stupidness as suggested by this telegraph link. I would agree that there would probably have been a percentage, s small one, who would have based their reasons for leaving purely down to the leave campaign before the referendum. However, most leavers views were formed throughout the history of the EU and the UKs relationship with it.

OP posts:
Ta1kinpeace · 15/10/2018 19:53

However, most leavers views were formed throughout the history of the EU and the UKs relationship with it.
And Brexit will not change any of the things that caused those views.

Most of the things that Leavers are angry about originate in Whitehall not Brussels.

Peregrina · 15/10/2018 19:57

I honestly don't think that the majority of Leaver's views were formed through the history of the EU and the UK's links. I don't think they had much of an opinion one way or the other.

Original poster
MyNameIsArthur · 15/10/2018 20:02

They originated in Brussels but our Govts signed up to them without our say so

OP posts:
Bearbehind · 15/10/2018 20:03

However, most leavers views were formed throughout the history of the EU and the UKs relationship with it.

OP, how did you reach that conclusion?

I appreciate I missed the post where you explicitly stated you voted Leave but I've since checked and I've not seen you state anywhere what your reasons were.

You seem to fall very much into the camp of 'your work was done after you put your cross on the box and the rest was up to the government'.

What did you want Brexit to achieve?

Bearbehind · 15/10/2018 20:05

They originated in Brussels but our Govts signed up to them without our say so

Can you give some examples of what originated in Brussels that we would otherwise not have agreed to?

bellinisurge · 15/10/2018 20:05

@MyNameIsArthur I know maybe two people in real life who had intelligent reasons for voting Leave (that I disagreed with). The rest just trotted out the kind of nonsense in that Telegraph article. I know a broad range of people from a range of backgrounds with different education levels.
Sadly real life has been more like the Telegraph article. One of my Leavers friends described themselves as the 10% of Leavers who "knew what Leave would actually mean".

Ta1kinpeace · 15/10/2018 20:14

They originated in Brussels but our Govts signed up to them without our say so
What did?
Which legislation do you expect to change after Brexit?

KennDodd · 15/10/2018 20:15

One of my Leavers friends described themselves as the 10% of Leavers who "knew what Leave would actually mean".

So they voted for this shit storm. Because that's what this is and it was completely predictable and predicated.

BackInTime · 15/10/2018 20:37

Just thinking of the leavers I know and honestly all have cited some or all of the reasons listed in the Telegraph.

This list is not an insult those who voted leave but an example and a reminder of how the leave campaign was based on lies and half truths that played on people’s fears and frustrations by blaming everything wrong with the country on the EU.

The politians on the leave side dismissed and minimised all the real issues like the economy and NI. Instead they campaigned on populist vote winners mentioned on the list. Their campaign was supported by outside influences that stand to profit when/ if we leave. That’s what gets to me, not that people voted leave but the whole campaign that was dishonest and that people were really not given the full facts.

bellinisurge · 15/10/2018 20:38

@KennDodd - not saying it's fucking sensible. Just saying there are a bunch of Leavers who kid themselves they are smart risk takers.