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Brexit

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?

980 replies

RedToothBrush · 26/03/2018 18:33

After over a year in the public dominion, SUDDENLY the mainstream media have picked up the story on breeches by the Leave campaigns over election rules. This comes off the back of the Cambridge Analytic scandal with Facebook data having been stolen and their offices (finally) being raided.

This has now led to the involvement of solicitors Bindmans (who were involved with the Gina Miller case and are associated with prominent Remain Jolyon Maugam) and have released a 53 page document they say is evidence of collaboration between Vote Leave and BeLeave campaigns. They state effectively that there is no 'smoking gun' rather a 'drip drip drip' effect of cumulative information (as Sam Coates succinctly sums up).

What difference does this make?

Both the Electoral Commission and the ICO have very little power and in law there doesn't appear to technically be any recourse. This needs to be addressed now as an extreme priority.

The prospect of another referendum being run in such circumstances, is alarming. Without an inquiry into what went wrong, how could you prevent any of this from happening again? There would also be feelings of some kind of establishment stitch-up to reverse the referendum, which could have major implications for trust in democracy in its own right.

There seems to be no easy answer here. And Brexit increasingly looks to be the turkey that was feared, though not exactly in the way the deeply flawed remain campaign made out.

Noises from the disgruntled Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings read like almost a threat to go after the EHCR which is just as poorly understood as the EU. And there is every reason to believe that Lexiter types would also be supportive if that meant they could take property from private ownership and put into state ownership without having to properly compensate.

Worth noting is that Cummings originally deleted his twitter account when this first started to surface. A least one of the whistleblowers was and still is a committed Leaver. Cummings seems rattled, but Cummings was previously on record as saying he wanted to destroy our existing establishment. He's not rattled about the damage to democracy nor I suspect even leaving the EU; he's rattled at prospect of being 'caught'. Make of that what you will.

With that in mind, shouldn't we be the mildest bit cautious about the intentions of Chris Wylie when he says we should have another referendum? Should we be cynical, rather than just accepting this as being great news and getting excited about an opportunity to reverse Brexit? Worst still our failure to be able to trust anything, in itself, is a sign of just how weak our democracy has become.

Are the efforts to dig up a story which should have been dealt with twelve months ago, going to help? Could they cause more damage and further risk our now seemingly ever fragile democracy?

I don't know. Impossible to tell. As Westministenders has said from very early on, the referendum wasn't just about leaving the EU but also a turning of backs on the concepts and principles of democracy. Only now is this really beginning to show its true ugliness to the masses. Even now, few see the real dangers here. Many are so blinded by the hatred of their political 'enemies' they turn a blind eye to their own side's zealotry and dogma.

The danger from the far right was always much more clear to see, but the danger from the far left as it grows bolder is also starting to be alarming.

If you think this is merely about leaving the EU, you are wrong. Even if we do stay in the EU after everything, we may still lose what it is to be a real functioning democracy.

Unless we promote these principles and involve all in society and give them a stake in the future; either inside or outside the EU we will be in a whole world more trouble.

And if that wasn't bad enough. Russian spies and murders plus the appointment of warmonger Bolton at the Whitehouse.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
54
MangoSplit · 26/03/2018 18:35

Place marking- thanks Red

lalalonglegs · 26/03/2018 18:38

Brilliant thread title - thank you, Red Star.

QuentinSummers · 26/03/2018 18:42

Great if depressing OP red

lonelyplanetmum · 26/03/2018 18:42

🐟 mat🤴🏽

...with great interest in the ' what difference it will make aspect' and thanks to valiant Red.

RedToothBrush · 26/03/2018 18:50

In case you missed it on the other thread, there are now claims of a 'smoking gun' having been uncovered.

gizmodo.com/aggregateiq-created-cambridge-analyticas-election-softw-1824026565

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lonelyplanetmum · 26/03/2018 18:53

Just thinking that there's so much going on here we should probably be more vigilant about warmonger Bolton.

Perhaps that's what this trip is to discuss... www.cnn.com/2018/03/26/asia/north-korea-train-beijing-intl/index.html

RedToothBrush · 26/03/2018 18:53

Guardian Editorial tonight:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/26/the-guardian-view-on-labour-and-antisemitism-a-leader-must-lead?CMP=twt_gu
The Guardian view on Labour and antisemitism: a leader must lead
Jeremy Corbyn does not lead an anstisemitic party. But he is too complacent and reactive to a vile issue that threatens his moral authority

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RedToothBrush · 26/03/2018 18:55

Lonely I just noticed that one too. I can't keep up tonight!!!

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SingaSong12 · 26/03/2018 18:57

Was my first thought - if you were part of an organisation that did something potentially affecting the long term future of the country why wait all this time to whistle blow.

Motheroffourdragons · 26/03/2018 19:00

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

TomRavenscroft · 26/03/2018 19:01

Thanks as always, Red. Place mat king. Rather too much going on for my tiny brain!

Peregrina · 26/03/2018 19:04

Also placemat king.

Dobby1sAFreeElf · 26/03/2018 19:05

Thanks as ever red

BigChocFrenzy · 26/03/2018 19:17

Great title
Thanks again, red Thanks

RedToothBrush · 26/03/2018 19:19

Paul Waugh @paulwaugh
Wes Streeting is making a v angry speech at PLP right now saying leadership failed to stand up for 'our Jewish colleagues". And demands to know why Ken Livingstone still in the party.

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borntobequiet · 26/03/2018 19:20

Thanks Red.
Time to start hassling the BBC.

prettybird · 26/03/2018 19:22

Good point in the penultimate comment of your OP, Red (brilliant OP as ever FlowersStar). You are slightly more positive and constructive about what needs to be done to maintain our democratic principles than Robert Peston was at the Aye Write Festival Smile

Reporting Scotland did a piece this evening on the two extremes from the Referendum, with just over a year to go until the UK leaves the EU under A50: one from Lossiemouth, which only just voted Remain (the narrowest vote in Scotland) and the other from Edinburgh, which voted most strongly Remain.

In Lossiemouth, a woman who at most was in her early 40s, but probably in her 30s or even late 20s (she had a young baby) said she wanted to leave because, "We need to stand for ourselves like we used to be able [.......] Be the nation we used to be back in the 40s" ShockConfused

She has obviously not much knowledge of history - nor was she probably even born in the 70s when we joined the EU as the "sick man of Europe" Hmm

The Edinburgh comments were much more informed!

Place mat king 🐠🎣👑

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 26/03/2018 19:27

Thanks red Star

BigChocFrenzy · 26/03/2018 19:31

sing I suspect some of those whistle-blowing are doing so to escape blame - they think the secrets are coming out and they want to get in first as the penitent sinners.

It can be to save their reputations and future job prospects, or it can be someone who has maybe broken a law and wants to improve heir chances.

This is far more serious if they have broken any US law, rather than UK law, with the massive jail terms they can hand out.
Also, the US has Müller beavering away, whereas the UK executive does not normally allow independent investigation of itself.

Anyone remember back in the 1970s, Judge John Sirica handing out 40 year sentences to the Watergate burglars, to force them to break their silence?
It worked.
Müller, like many US prosecutors, might bring charges with a potentially huge maximum, in order to bring pressure on them to talk about those higher up who gave the orders.

BigChocFrenzy · 26/03/2018 19:33

The UK-US connections will be very interesting; at what level the same personnel would have been involved in both

Calyx · 26/03/2018 19:34

Surfacing to place mat and say thanks Red your writing and others here are the best and my most trusted (and interesting and most current) news and analysis anywhere ThanksStarWineBrew

ALittleAubergine · 26/03/2018 19:40

It's all happening now! Again.. I'm in a cynical mood and don't think any of these goings-on will change anything at least for the better. More than happy to be proved wrong, hopefully sooner rather than later.

RedToothBrush · 26/03/2018 19:40

Carole Cadwalladr @carolecadwalla
Emergency debate tomorrow in parliament grant re Vote Leave. But fresh evidence has emerged tonight re AIQ & Cambridge Analytica. The Electoral Commission cannot handle this. A public inquiry must now be a real possibility. We need answers.

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lonelyplanetmum · 26/03/2018 19:45

Not wishing to denigrate from the bravery of whistleblowing generally, I think that the motivations of the current whistleblowers have multi factors:

•Chris Wylie- also possibly motivated by the fact he parted company with the organisation.
• Shahmir Sanni also possibly bitter that he was a volunteer and yet even when the £1m came in, none of it was earmarked as a salary for volunteers.

Also I think frightened of any implication of involvement in the US maybe?

OlennasWimple · 26/03/2018 19:49

Thanks again, Red

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