Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?

980 replies

RedToothBrush · 26/03/2018 18:33

After over a year in the public dominion, SUDDENLY the mainstream media have picked up the story on breeches by the Leave campaigns over election rules. This comes off the back of the Cambridge Analytic scandal with Facebook data having been stolen and their offices (finally) being raided.

This has now led to the involvement of solicitors Bindmans (who were involved with the Gina Miller case and are associated with prominent Remain Jolyon Maugam) and have released a 53 page document they say is evidence of collaboration between Vote Leave and BeLeave campaigns. They state effectively that there is no 'smoking gun' rather a 'drip drip drip' effect of cumulative information (as Sam Coates succinctly sums up).

What difference does this make?

Both the Electoral Commission and the ICO have very little power and in law there doesn't appear to technically be any recourse. This needs to be addressed now as an extreme priority.

The prospect of another referendum being run in such circumstances, is alarming. Without an inquiry into what went wrong, how could you prevent any of this from happening again? There would also be feelings of some kind of establishment stitch-up to reverse the referendum, which could have major implications for trust in democracy in its own right.

There seems to be no easy answer here. And Brexit increasingly looks to be the turkey that was feared, though not exactly in the way the deeply flawed remain campaign made out.

Noises from the disgruntled Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings read like almost a threat to go after the EHCR which is just as poorly understood as the EU. And there is every reason to believe that Lexiter types would also be supportive if that meant they could take property from private ownership and put into state ownership without having to properly compensate.

Worth noting is that Cummings originally deleted his twitter account when this first started to surface. A least one of the whistleblowers was and still is a committed Leaver. Cummings seems rattled, but Cummings was previously on record as saying he wanted to destroy our existing establishment. He's not rattled about the damage to democracy nor I suspect even leaving the EU; he's rattled at prospect of being 'caught'. Make of that what you will.

With that in mind, shouldn't we be the mildest bit cautious about the intentions of Chris Wylie when he says we should have another referendum? Should we be cynical, rather than just accepting this as being great news and getting excited about an opportunity to reverse Brexit? Worst still our failure to be able to trust anything, in itself, is a sign of just how weak our democracy has become.

Are the efforts to dig up a story which should have been dealt with twelve months ago, going to help? Could they cause more damage and further risk our now seemingly ever fragile democracy?

I don't know. Impossible to tell. As Westministenders has said from very early on, the referendum wasn't just about leaving the EU but also a turning of backs on the concepts and principles of democracy. Only now is this really beginning to show its true ugliness to the masses. Even now, few see the real dangers here. Many are so blinded by the hatred of their political 'enemies' they turn a blind eye to their own side's zealotry and dogma.

The danger from the far right was always much more clear to see, but the danger from the far left as it grows bolder is also starting to be alarming.

If you think this is merely about leaving the EU, you are wrong. Even if we do stay in the EU after everything, we may still lose what it is to be a real functioning democracy.

Unless we promote these principles and involve all in society and give them a stake in the future; either inside or outside the EU we will be in a whole world more trouble.

And if that wasn't bad enough. Russian spies and murders plus the appointment of warmonger Bolton at the Whitehouse.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
54
TomRavenscroft · 27/03/2018 13:49

Could this be a 'get out of jail free' card for Theresa May, when she does her u-turn on Brexit?

Do you mean the ultimate u-turn –we don't Brexit at all?

I can't imagine that.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 27/03/2018 13:51

Thanks red.

Interesting turn of questioning, trying out the credibility of Wylie.

MissBartlettsconscience · 27/03/2018 13:54

Just place mat king - struggling to keep up!

I'm glad that the Cambridge Analytica stuff that people have been talking about for months is finally making a big appearance and being taken seriously - I thought it would all be swept under the rug.

woman11017 · 27/03/2018 14:13

Wylie, on ICO, is like a patient son trying to explain how to use a new phone. Blush

RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 14:23

Nick Robinson @bbcnickrobinson
Big Brexit story this week is not Cambridge Analytica. It is Labour hardening up its position as @Keir_Starmer says “Article 50 was triggered a year ago. I don’t think there is any realistic prospect of it being revoked. Therefore we will be leaving the EU in March 2019.”

OP posts:
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 27/03/2018 14:33

Adonis did not agree

Andrew Adonis
‏****@Andrew_Adonis
More Andrew Adonis Retweeted Nick Robinson
Does Nick realise how far this demonstrates the pro-Brexit stance of the BBC? An apparently massive breach of the law is of less consequence than an interview by a shadow minister! An impartial BBC would not be making this assertion.

Nick Robinson
‏**@bbcnickrobinson**
Replying to @Andrew_Adonis
The alleged breach of the law is rightly leading news bulletins on the impartial BBC! I happen to think the position of the Official Opposition is likely to matter more in the long term...as I suspect do you & @campbellclaret

Andrew Adonis
‏****@Andrew_Adonis
More Andrew Adonis Retweeted Nick Robinson
... a value judgement by the supposedly impartial BBC, to vindicate your consistently pro-Brexit coverage, particularly your own @BBCr4today

Nick Robinson
@bbcnickrobinson
Replying to @Andrew_Adonis @BBCr4today
It's a news judgment. The course of Brexit is most likely to be altered by Parliament. So it is v significant that the official opposition have just declared that they neither intend to try to stop it nor to back a 2nd referendum. Events may, of course, turn out differently ...

DGRossetti · 27/03/2018 14:37

Could this be a 'get out of jail free' card for Theresa May, when she does her u-turn on Brexit?

Not really. Remember how unhinged the Barmy Brexit Brigade are. Their line will be how only by leaving the EU can the UK unleash the full potential of good old English British spunk at Johnny foreigner.

Forget buses, we'll have Boris and Farage standing next to a hastily unmothballed Lancaster with TAKE THAT VLAD painted on the side.

Or Wellington.

RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 15:35

Kevin Scholfield @ polhomeeditor
EXCL Labour Friends of Israel chair Joan Ryan MP demands Shadow Transport Secretary Andy McDonald apologise over comments he made about Auschwitz and Palestinians on Sky News on Sunday.

OP posts:
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 27/03/2018 15:43

Is the emergency debate on now or is something else happening in the House of Commons? They’re certainly talking about Cambridge Analytica

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 27/03/2018 15:44

Talk of a russia commission! (I’ve only tuned in now so have missed lots)

woman11017 · 27/03/2018 16:20

pain
MPs hold emergency debate on allegations Vote Leave broke election spending rules

In the Commons MPs are now just starting an emergency debate on the allegations that Vote Leave broke election spending rules in the EU referendum
.
www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/mar/27/tony-blair-tells-tories-to-block-brexit-if-they-want-to-avoid-corbyn-government-politics-live?page=with:block-5aba4bdee4b0ea82609d0f7f#block-5aba4bdee4b0ea82609d0f7f

Hasenstein · 27/03/2018 17:23

RTB

Favourite story of the day: poor old New Zealand can't find any Kremlin spies to throw out. PM Jacinda Ardern: "We have done a check. We don't have Russian undeclared intelligence officers here. If we did, we would expel them".

Grin
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 27/03/2018 17:53

Thanks woman. The Tory side of the house was woefully underpopulated

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 18:11

The theory is:
NZ doesn't have secrets worth the Russians sending spies to a country that take 24 hours to fly into or out of, from anywhere interesting.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 18:25

A recent EU "Notice to Stakeholders:
withdrawal of the United Kingdom and EU rules in the field of audiovisual media services"

Sounds a very useful restriction, but apparently relates to planned 5G and other data development - which is a future market the UK may lose

https://ec.europa.eu/info/publications/notice-stakeholders-withdrawal-united-kingdom-and-eu-rules-field-audiovisual-media-services_en

"EU-27 Member States will be entitled, based on their own national law and, where applicable, within the limits of the European Convention on Transfrontier Television, to restrict reception and retransmission of audiovisual media services originating from the United Kingdom."

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 27/03/2018 18:34

Sam Coates Times
@SamCoatesTimes
Breaking: Theresa May in front of liaison committee announces a plan to inject more money into the NHS. “I would suggest we can’t afford to wait until next Easter”

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
Peregrina · 27/03/2018 19:30

May putting money into the NHS? Not before time, but I suspect she's only doing it because she knows what a huge vote loser the current attitude is for the Tories.

prettybird · 27/03/2018 19:39

Why do I suspect that any extra funding that May might offer to the NHS will come with major strings attached? Hmm

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 19:45

Senior civil servant JDD posting on RNorth blog

Wylie seems to have stirred things up at the top, but I suspect JDD is indulging in wishful thinking.
However, this is what he posted:

http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86812

"Wylie and his evidence has just changed everything
Emergency meeting later today maybe asking for a pause...a pause stops the clock.
< someone may indeed ask - but it will be refused, unless there is far more to come out about CA & co >

Was the vote legal if it can be proved that CA etc etc.
I'm stuck in the US but keep getting pulled out of bed for advice

the Wylie evidence has sunk Cummins; it will sink Legatum as well"
< I do hope he is right there >

< he then posted he was phoned about a rumour the PM may cancel the referendum, but imo that is very wishful thinking >

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 19:48

Article claiming major links between Robert Mercer & Putin.
Very alarming if true

medium.com/@q502/robert-mercer-money-launderer-for-vladimir-putin-8c596cd3d930

lonelyplanetmum · 27/03/2018 20:24

the Wylie evidence has sunk Cummins; it will sink Legatum as well"

I wonder if that's why the key team jumped ship because they knew exposure was imminent. Although they'd still be implicated of course.

SwedishEdith · 27/03/2018 20:26

The vast majority of people who voted Leave would have done so without the influence of any of this. They were not duped in any way. They were voting exactly the way they would they would have otherwise.

Well, many of them have been influenced already. Just not by CA/FB.

RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 20:29

I don't believe a word of the senior civil servant blog effect. Total wishful thinking.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 20:35

Hidden in the Guardian daily round up

May hinted that the government has now realised that setting up new customs arrangements after Brexit could take longer than expected. This is what she said in response to a question from the Conservative Nicky Morgan, who said HM Revenue and Customs told her Treasury committee that a new customs partnership with the EU could take five years to set up.

"We are looking at different potential customs arrangements for the future in order to deliver on the commitments that we have made. We are now the point at being able to look in more detail with the European commission at some of those proposals. And I think it is fair to say that, as we get into the detail and as we look at these arrangements, then what becomes clear is that sometimes the timetables that have originally been set are not the timetables that are necessary when you actually start to look at the detail and when you delve into what it really is that you want to be able to achieve."

No shit

OP posts:
frumpety · 27/03/2018 20:40

Does anyone else think the missing years in Cummings Wiki page unusual for such an allegedly influential person , or is 'read widely' a euphemism for something else ?

And before you think I have gone all conspiracy again , can anyone add to his page , could I for instance pop on and suggest he has a passion for collecting novelty teapots and crotched bed socks ?