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Brexit

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?

980 replies

RedToothBrush · 26/03/2018 18:33

After over a year in the public dominion, SUDDENLY the mainstream media have picked up the story on breeches by the Leave campaigns over election rules. This comes off the back of the Cambridge Analytic scandal with Facebook data having been stolen and their offices (finally) being raided.

This has now led to the involvement of solicitors Bindmans (who were involved with the Gina Miller case and are associated with prominent Remain Jolyon Maugam) and have released a 53 page document they say is evidence of collaboration between Vote Leave and BeLeave campaigns. They state effectively that there is no 'smoking gun' rather a 'drip drip drip' effect of cumulative information (as Sam Coates succinctly sums up).

What difference does this make?

Both the Electoral Commission and the ICO have very little power and in law there doesn't appear to technically be any recourse. This needs to be addressed now as an extreme priority.

The prospect of another referendum being run in such circumstances, is alarming. Without an inquiry into what went wrong, how could you prevent any of this from happening again? There would also be feelings of some kind of establishment stitch-up to reverse the referendum, which could have major implications for trust in democracy in its own right.

There seems to be no easy answer here. And Brexit increasingly looks to be the turkey that was feared, though not exactly in the way the deeply flawed remain campaign made out.

Noises from the disgruntled Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings read like almost a threat to go after the EHCR which is just as poorly understood as the EU. And there is every reason to believe that Lexiter types would also be supportive if that meant they could take property from private ownership and put into state ownership without having to properly compensate.

Worth noting is that Cummings originally deleted his twitter account when this first started to surface. A least one of the whistleblowers was and still is a committed Leaver. Cummings seems rattled, but Cummings was previously on record as saying he wanted to destroy our existing establishment. He's not rattled about the damage to democracy nor I suspect even leaving the EU; he's rattled at prospect of being 'caught'. Make of that what you will.

With that in mind, shouldn't we be the mildest bit cautious about the intentions of Chris Wylie when he says we should have another referendum? Should we be cynical, rather than just accepting this as being great news and getting excited about an opportunity to reverse Brexit? Worst still our failure to be able to trust anything, in itself, is a sign of just how weak our democracy has become.

Are the efforts to dig up a story which should have been dealt with twelve months ago, going to help? Could they cause more damage and further risk our now seemingly ever fragile democracy?

I don't know. Impossible to tell. As Westministenders has said from very early on, the referendum wasn't just about leaving the EU but also a turning of backs on the concepts and principles of democracy. Only now is this really beginning to show its true ugliness to the masses. Even now, few see the real dangers here. Many are so blinded by the hatred of their political 'enemies' they turn a blind eye to their own side's zealotry and dogma.

The danger from the far right was always much more clear to see, but the danger from the far left as it grows bolder is also starting to be alarming.

If you think this is merely about leaving the EU, you are wrong. Even if we do stay in the EU after everything, we may still lose what it is to be a real functioning democracy.

Unless we promote these principles and involve all in society and give them a stake in the future; either inside or outside the EU we will be in a whole world more trouble.

And if that wasn't bad enough. Russian spies and murders plus the appointment of warmonger Bolton at the Whitehouse.

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RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 20:45

FFS. This is too good to be true. There are claims that programmers left a note in AIQ code to themselves. Nothing unusual there, except thidas note pretty much reads delete the data that goes against uk privacy laws.

Either this is extreme carelessness or someone is now trying to stitch someone else up.

Carole Cadwalladr @ carolecadwalla
Oh dear. This is from AIQ which worked for Vote Leave during the referendum. Talking about how to delete the data they may have accidentally harvested. That, um, 'goes against UK privacy laws'. Whoops.
@ICOnews you there?

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Peregrina · 27/03/2018 20:47

a new customs partnership with the EU could take five years to set up.

So we have to stay in the SM and CU because of the Irish border situation, which means a further three years added on to the existing two. When the Tories will probably go an lose the election due around then. This could get interesting..... it might lead to Brexit being cancelled, although not with Corbyn at the helm.

RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 20:51

Oh btw I love how May drops money on the NHS today of all days.

Thats the one that says 'slighty rattled'.

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OlennasWimple · 27/03/2018 20:51

frumpety - do you mean the bit that says "Cummings led the campaign against a North-East Regional Assembly in 2004 and then moved to his father's farm in Durham and read widely."? Grin

Yes, basically anyone can edit Wikipedia

frumpety · 27/03/2018 21:00

I think 'read widely' meant he binge read the entire back catalogue of Jilly Cooper novels Wink

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 21:04

red "extreme carelessness" is quite possible:
The blundering of the "plumbers" uncovered by Watergate astonished us all at the time, too.

Maybe the pre-digital equivalent: one burglar taping back the door lock for his convenience …
which led to the security guard discovering them …
which was what started the unravelling of the whole dirty tricks organisation the right wing to fix elections … that time

They keep breaking the law and hopefully they'll keep blundering

Icantreachthepretzels · 27/03/2018 21:21

he then posted he was phoned about a rumour the PM may cancel the referendum, but imo that is very wishful thinking

I know this is just one anonymous person's assertion about a possible rumour - so in no way reliable... but I can actually see May doing this, if she thinks events are overtaking her and she gets the idea in her head that if it was illegal then this is the best course of action. She has form for getting ideas and then acting on them without listening to advice - regardless of how difficult or unpopular that action may prove to be. She's utterly pigheaded when it comes to doing her version of 'right' and she's a panicker. I can really see her deciding that x, y and z means the referendum must be declared null and void and then not swerving from that no matter what.

I'd be absolutely delighted of course - but it would still be the actions of a weak and bad Prime minister and not the heroic reversal of a dreadful mistake that we have been hoping for. I don't know what the fallout would be - but if we got to stay in the EU for a bit longer - I'd take it.

RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 21:31

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/uk-visas-russia-salisbury-poisoning-spy-wealthy-foreign-nationals-nerve-agent-immigration-a8276816.html?amp&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true
UK to review visas for wealthy foreign nationals amid concern over Russian involvement in Salisbury poisoning
Checks on loopholes were not specifically focused on Russia, PM says

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woman11017 · 27/03/2018 21:32

Brexit campaign chief accused of 'money laundering' by Cambridge Analytica whisleblower
www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/brexit-campaign-chief-accused-of-money-laundering-by-cambridge-analytica-whisleblower-a3800591.html
Nothing new in this article, but....... a few million people will be reading it tomorrow. I was and am still surprised at how few people know about this stuff.

I like that Wiki entry on Cummings too,frumpety including his Russian airline venture in which one plane flew in the 3 years he lived in Russia. Confused unless that's a novelty teapot entry.

RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 21:34

Bbc newsnight @ bbcnewsnight
TONIGHT: Christopher Wylie, @chrisinsilico, claimed today that the UK may not have voted for Brexit had it not been for ‘cheating’ by the Leave campaign. We speak to the Cambridge Analytica whistleblower on #newsnight at 22:30 on BBC 2.

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mrsreynolds · 27/03/2018 21:41

EVERYTHING about this is alarming...
😮😡

lonelyplanetmum · 27/03/2018 21:46

Just for anyone who is really trying to get into the detail of this.

The implication the murder of Wylie's predecessor sounds a bit of a conspiracy theory but I really don't think it is.

I googled 2012 news reports and it said this:

'Dan Muresan, son of former agriculture peasant minister Ioan Avram Muresan, suddenly died in his hotel room in Kenya. The 32-year-old was working for a British policy consultancy that set up electoral strategies in countries in South Africa, Southeast Asia and Eastern Europe.

The young man was, according to his profile on the Linkedin website, a graduate of the London School of Economics and Political Science and a George Washington University's political management master. He had coordinated electoral campaigns in Virginia and Texas, as well as campaigns in Europe and Africa.

Until this hour, the reasons for Dan Muresan's death are unknown.

His father, Ioan Avram Muresan, the former Minister of Agriculture, was convicted by the magistrates of the High Court of Cassation and Justice at 7 years in prison with execution in the case in which he was accused of misappropriation."

So although this is nothing to do with the current quagmire:
1.It shows what a dirty business this all is.
2.Wylie's evidence and credibility shouldn't be undermined because he was pushed to speculate on this.The rumours could be true.

RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 21:46

Cracking little thread this one

Laura Shields @mediawhizz
This is a thread about democracy and the information that underpins our electoral decision making. 1/

twitter.com/mediawhizz/status/978552148467372032

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woman11017 · 27/03/2018 22:12

It shows what a dirty business this all is

‏*@breakpolnews*
Labour MP Ben Bradshaw said in Parliament that Daphne Galizia, a journalist who was murdered while investigating corruption at a Maltese bank, was also investigating Cambridge Analytica.

British MP calls for UK support for Caruana Galizia murder investigation Caruana Galizia was investigating Cambridge Analytica

www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20180327/local/uk-mp-claims-caruana-galizia-was-investigating-cambridge-analytica.674689

lalalonglegs · 27/03/2018 22:18

Bloody hell Shock.

Peregrina · 27/03/2018 22:19

I think this could turn into May's Watergate. That rumbled on for a while and then bang! it all went up.

mrsreynolds · 27/03/2018 22:23

Christ....

RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 22:25

iain Watson @iainjwatson
13 Labour MPs in South Yorkshire back @DanJarvisMP in remaining an MP & (if he wins) Sheffield city region mayor says @BBCJamesVincent/NEC could decide to select another candidate or poss he could lose whip as an MP if he doesn't stand down No decision on which course of action

Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak
New battle brewing btw Labour HQ and other elements in party - his supporters say Jarvis made his application on basis of staying on as MP and was elected as the candidate by 58 percent of members' votes-'attempt to remove him smacks of bullying + is deeply undemocratic' says one

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RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 22:31

On the horrible racist Havering leaflets put out by the Conservatives:

Nick Boles MP @NickBoles
This leaflet is disgraceful. The individuals responsible should apologise, and withdraw it, or face disciplinary action. We cannot attack Corbyn for indulging anti-semitism in Labour and allow messages like this to go unchallenged. @BrandonLewis over to you.

Watching with interest...

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BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 22:36

Remember last year that Conservative councillors in Barnet discussed a motion describing Khan as “an enemy of the people of Barnet”

"enemies of the people" comes up a lot now.

The far right have borrowed it from the far left

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 22:39

The Labour party has strong pockets of anti-semitism
The Tory party has strong pockets of being racist about everyone else
We must condemn both, whenever we see them

but wtf did we do to deserve such vile main parties
Such a bloody awful choice.

woman11017 · 27/03/2018 22:49

wtf did we do to deserve such vile main parties
There are some excellent women politicians about, pity we don't have more of them. The 70/30% ? imbalance of the sexes does our country's politics no favours either. Some of the best contributions to today's poorly attended debate were from women MPs. (Alexander, Lucas)

thecatfromjapan · 27/03/2018 22:50

I think 'Enemies of the People' has been pretty much owned by the Right, now, and has a strong Brexity edge. Sad

The strange thing - or perhaps not - about the anti-semitism and the racism is how both were used during the Referendum. I was thinking about the awful mural and how much it crossed-over with the vile nonsense that used to get spouted on here by Claig and others of his ilk. And that HAvering leaflet touches on a lot of the stuff that Brexity trolls would post about London.

Obviously, I know both existed before and after (for example, the Havering leaflet picks up on a lot of the things Zac Goldsmith's lovely campaign dog-whislted) but it does just make me think about the weirdness of the nasty Referendum fairytales all over again.

That is very shocking about the murdered journalist. Sad

I don't hold out much hope for Dan Jarvis - but it would be nice if he didn't have to resign. It's interesting that there's a teeny bit of a fight to keep him in situ.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 23:49

Campaigners demand Theresa May investigates what Michael Gove and Boris Johnson knew

Letter from the anti-Brexit group Best for Britain.
However, pressure on her will only be effective when significant numbers of Tory MPs join in - and most would go along with ignoring it asap, unless the public gets angry about CA

She probably doesn't even have the political clout / backbone to ask Gove & Johnson if the allegations about them are true
The contrast between now and when she first became PM; how she relished telling Gove what she thought of him, when she sacked him
< her loss of power as PM has been phenomenal, even considering the usual honeymoon period and drop off >

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/26/pressure-grows-on-pm-over-brexit-cambridge-analytica-scandal-theresa-may

RedToothBrush · 28/03/2018 00:20

Henry Mance @ henrymance
This is jaw-dropping.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/foreigners-to-net-uk-fish-after-brexit-hpf6njhvt
Foreigners to net UK fish after Brexit
Overseas firms have already bought much of Britain’s quota and will keep it after we quit the EU

Britain’s fish will still belong to Europe after Brexit — because Spain, Holland and Iceland have bought up nearly 90% of the entire fishing quota of Wales and more than half the quota assigned to England.

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
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