Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?

980 replies

RedToothBrush · 26/03/2018 18:33

After over a year in the public dominion, SUDDENLY the mainstream media have picked up the story on breeches by the Leave campaigns over election rules. This comes off the back of the Cambridge Analytic scandal with Facebook data having been stolen and their offices (finally) being raided.

This has now led to the involvement of solicitors Bindmans (who were involved with the Gina Miller case and are associated with prominent Remain Jolyon Maugam) and have released a 53 page document they say is evidence of collaboration between Vote Leave and BeLeave campaigns. They state effectively that there is no 'smoking gun' rather a 'drip drip drip' effect of cumulative information (as Sam Coates succinctly sums up).

What difference does this make?

Both the Electoral Commission and the ICO have very little power and in law there doesn't appear to technically be any recourse. This needs to be addressed now as an extreme priority.

The prospect of another referendum being run in such circumstances, is alarming. Without an inquiry into what went wrong, how could you prevent any of this from happening again? There would also be feelings of some kind of establishment stitch-up to reverse the referendum, which could have major implications for trust in democracy in its own right.

There seems to be no easy answer here. And Brexit increasingly looks to be the turkey that was feared, though not exactly in the way the deeply flawed remain campaign made out.

Noises from the disgruntled Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings read like almost a threat to go after the EHCR which is just as poorly understood as the EU. And there is every reason to believe that Lexiter types would also be supportive if that meant they could take property from private ownership and put into state ownership without having to properly compensate.

Worth noting is that Cummings originally deleted his twitter account when this first started to surface. A least one of the whistleblowers was and still is a committed Leaver. Cummings seems rattled, but Cummings was previously on record as saying he wanted to destroy our existing establishment. He's not rattled about the damage to democracy nor I suspect even leaving the EU; he's rattled at prospect of being 'caught'. Make of that what you will.

With that in mind, shouldn't we be the mildest bit cautious about the intentions of Chris Wylie when he says we should have another referendum? Should we be cynical, rather than just accepting this as being great news and getting excited about an opportunity to reverse Brexit? Worst still our failure to be able to trust anything, in itself, is a sign of just how weak our democracy has become.

Are the efforts to dig up a story which should have been dealt with twelve months ago, going to help? Could they cause more damage and further risk our now seemingly ever fragile democracy?

I don't know. Impossible to tell. As Westministenders has said from very early on, the referendum wasn't just about leaving the EU but also a turning of backs on the concepts and principles of democracy. Only now is this really beginning to show its true ugliness to the masses. Even now, few see the real dangers here. Many are so blinded by the hatred of their political 'enemies' they turn a blind eye to their own side's zealotry and dogma.

The danger from the far right was always much more clear to see, but the danger from the far left as it grows bolder is also starting to be alarming.

If you think this is merely about leaving the EU, you are wrong. Even if we do stay in the EU after everything, we may still lose what it is to be a real functioning democracy.

Unless we promote these principles and involve all in society and give them a stake in the future; either inside or outside the EU we will be in a whole world more trouble.

And if that wasn't bad enough. Russian spies and murders plus the appointment of warmonger Bolton at the Whitehouse.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
54
RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 10:58

Jo Maugham QC @JolyonMaugham
What Domimic Cummings will never understand - it being entirely alien to his modus operandi - is that some people actively welcome regulatory oversight. We see it as healthy. So please, if you think I have breached my professional standards, do contribute to his efforts.

OP posts:
lonelyplanetmum · 27/03/2018 11:32

Such a good comment..,

some people actively welcome regulatory oversight. We see it as healthy.

RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 12:25

2000 are currently watching the Chris Wylie interview by parliament.

I think he comes across as a credible witness. His body language seems open. He hasn't once been defensive. He has stopped at certain points to be specific about what he meant. He's barely paused all the way through.

He is either an amazing liar or he at least believes in what he is saying (whether that's true is another story).

I'm not sure there is a great deal that's been said that's not been said elsewhere. There is more detail and its more technical.

So far the new major revelations seem to be an accusation of money laundering against Dominic Cummings.

He also talked of how companies were interested in countries with lax labour laws, or where the laws can be "liberalised", to exploit those countries. They deliberately set out to destabilise countries. Sort of a privatised 'colonisation' (actually this has precedence worth noting here: the East India Company was actually a private venture, which collapsed and was bailed out by the British State). In the context of Boris Johnson, Daniel Hannan and other free traders this does sound significant.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 12:29

That said, he was clearly up to his neck in it all. And this is an exercise of trying to get himself out of whatever dogshit this is.

OP posts:
lonelyplanetmum · 27/03/2018 12:33

I agree whistleblowers are to be encouraged. I am glad he has spoken out.

However I am sure some of his motivation relates to the fact he parted company from the others with bad feeling.

This doesn't detract from what he is saying, but had things remained harmonious he would have continued.

Peregrina · 27/03/2018 12:38

I suspect if there are ever going to be criminal prosecutions that he's trying to get a lesser sentence out of it.

RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 12:38

I think its crucial to also point out this:

The vast majority of people who voted Leave would have done so without the influence of any of this. They were not duped in any way. They were voting exactly the way they would they would have otherwise.

It is only a small percentage of people who would have been influenced. So anyone going around saying to people that they had been 'brainwashed' by facebook, doesn't understand this. And of course they are going to come across a lot of understandable hostility to the suggestion.

Its the 1 or 2% of the population who were influenced, who are the concern. And they might not admit it. Those who do admit to it, are also going to come across hostility and won't be believed by leavers who are confident in their own vote.

This isn't coming across well in any of the media or social media. Its framed as if millions and millions were 'conned'.

This would have been enough to swing the result, but in terms of invalidating it completely? Difficult to prove. Even with the figures Wylie is trawling off (without any notes)

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 12:39

Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes
In front of MPs, Wylie is attempting to link Dom Cummings to the work of Robert Mercer, the Trump donor, Breitbart backer, hedge funder and data expert

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 12:47

Evening Standard @standardnews
Cambridge Analytica's predecessor 'died in hotel room poisoning'

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/cambridge-analytica-whistleblower-christopher-wylie-tells-mps-he-heard-his-predecessor-died-in-a3800136.html?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#link_time=1522150272
Cambridge Analytica whistleblower Christopher Wylie tells MPs he heard his predecessor was poisoned to death in Kenya after a deal went sour

This has got the headlines. Wylie said he didn't 'know' about this. This was just what he was told.

I can imagine this will have a lot of people stretching for the drawer in the kitchen containing baking consumables.

I think this was the biggest stretch out of everything said. Its a same. There is more important stuff he has said.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 12:49

Liam O'Hare @LiamOHare
The sole person registered by Companies House as having "significant control" over SLC Group is former British Army officer and major Conservative donor Roger Gabb. His son Rollo has also been listed as a shareholder.
I have been contacted by Rollo Gabb who says he wasn't aware he had shares until last year which came as a "big shock". He also says that SCL Group is completely unconnected to Cambridge Analytica and he suspects press who say otherwise will be sued.
I'm happy to reiterate that not only are Cambridge Analytica and SCL Group connected, but they are in fact one and the same. Look forward to the litigation.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 12:53

Wylie is talking about how he saw Eldon Insurance documents talking about the response rate to information whilst at CA.

Wyle is saying he doesn't know the exact relationship between CA and Eldon Insurance but askes why was Eldon Insurance doing reports on the success of Leave.EU advertising? He didn't know if they were in breech of their access to sensitive data, but he says there are legitimate questions that should be asked.

I think this is very important tbh. (Eldon Insurance is a Banks company).

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 12:57

Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes
In front of MPs, Wylie has made a new - to my ears - accusation against Cummings. He says he used AIQ as a “money laundering vehicle” and wanted to help AIQ "overspend".

Why overspend? What’s the purpose in that?

(I don’t know the implications and it will no doubt be denied)

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 13:02

Justin Hendrix @justinhendrix
@chrisinsilico says he is not saying Alexander Nix or SCL were online colluding with Russia, but that notifying Russians close to Putin and the FSB that a scientist working in Russia had access to this data created a massive risk.
Nix would have known the company would have been an intelligence target for Russia. If you are doing work in Eastern Europe and the Baltics, you know it. FSB just puts a key logger on Kogan's computer and you've got everything.
Did Cambridge Analytica use yandex tools? Not sure. @DamianCollins asks about relationship to Breitbart given Yandex cookies apparently found on Breitbart.

In other words if you put a shit load of data on a cloud, you have a big red target on your back for espionage purposes. Especially if you are doing work in areas which might happen to be politically sensitive.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 13:11

Justin Hendrix @justinhendrix
Asked about other companies doing this work: PALANTIR. There were also Palantir staff working with Facebook data. Palantir staff came into the offices of CAMBRIDGE ANALYTICA and helped build the models we were working on, even though there was no contract, says @chrisinsilico
"Staff at Palantir had access to the data."

Caroline O. @RVAwonk
Newly obtained emails show ICE uses Facebook data - in conjunction with Palantir a data-analytics firm founded by Peter Thiel - to find and track immigrants in the US.
theintercept.com/2018/03/26/facebook-data-ice-immigration/
ICE Uses Facebook Data to Find and Track Suspects, Internal Emails Show

Peter Thiel, is on Facebook's board of directors.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 13:13

Liam O'Hare @LiamOHare
Big revelation from @chrisinsilico there: "People who have worked on Prevent have also worked with SCL on projects."
Regarding 2014 Scottish independence referendum, @chrisinsilico says: "I believe Alexander Nix pitched for work on the Scottish referendum but I don't think it came to anything".

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 13:16

Carole Cadwalladr @carolecadwalla
We reported this a year ago. We had the emails (but couldn’t publish them then.) Palantir denied it. That’s Palantir who work with GCHQ. Who work with NSA. And whose owner Peter Thiel advised Trump campaign.

Isn't Prevent under the Home Office? When was this done? Was it under May?

OP posts:
woman11017 · 27/03/2018 13:22

FB evidence is extraordinary right now. If we shut down all accounts, I wonder how things would pan out.

woman11017 · 27/03/2018 13:28

Getting very Black Mirrory now. Slap down for Zuckerberg.

EU data protection and privacy laws, would be protect, us from this stuff, it's being pointed out.

Seen as a fundamental right..........in EU. Sad

Peregrina · 27/03/2018 13:29

Cambridge Analytica's antics in themselves may not have made someone change their vote, or as has been said, this would be hard to prove anyway, but it does create a particularly bad smell around who was in involved in the Leave Campaign and what they knew. How long will it be before Gove and Johnson start wriggling like fish on hooks? I gather that Johnson has already said it's ludicrous.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 27/03/2018 13:29

I'm too invested in Wylie's testimony to watch the emergency debate. Is that done and dusted or is it still to come?

Peregrina · 27/03/2018 13:30

EU data protection and privacy laws, would be protect, us from this stuff, it's being pointed out.

Could this be a 'get out of jail free' card for Theresa May, when she does her u-turn on Brexit?

woman11017 · 27/03/2018 13:34

"CA doesn't need to make money, it's a project of Robert Mercer".
It's absolutely gripping testimony, pain .

RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 13:35

Pain not on yet. There is no time for it on the schedule. They are currently debating Northamptonshire County Council.

There a ministerial statement on proposed GKN/Melrose takeover and a Ten Minute Rule Motion on Discarded Needles (Offences) to come before its on.

I think late afternoon to early evening from that.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 27/03/2018 13:40

Could this be a 'get out of jail free' card for Theresa May, when she does her u-turn on Brexit?

Yes potentially. Especially in conjunction with the 'threat from Russia' (or threat from the US depending on how you want to view it).

Long way to go on this yet though before we get close to that, plus May could well yet get caught up in this. She isn't keen on data protection and has a poor history in this area.

OP posts:
OhYouBadBadKitten · 27/03/2018 13:48

I'm very grateful the emergency debate isn't at the same time, my head would explode. Surely too mps should be listening to Wylie.
When it does come on, which channel do we think it will be on? Is there anyway for me to record it? At some point I do need to get on with my work.