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Brexit

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?

980 replies

RedToothBrush · 26/03/2018 18:33

After over a year in the public dominion, SUDDENLY the mainstream media have picked up the story on breeches by the Leave campaigns over election rules. This comes off the back of the Cambridge Analytic scandal with Facebook data having been stolen and their offices (finally) being raided.

This has now led to the involvement of solicitors Bindmans (who were involved with the Gina Miller case and are associated with prominent Remain Jolyon Maugam) and have released a 53 page document they say is evidence of collaboration between Vote Leave and BeLeave campaigns. They state effectively that there is no 'smoking gun' rather a 'drip drip drip' effect of cumulative information (as Sam Coates succinctly sums up).

What difference does this make?

Both the Electoral Commission and the ICO have very little power and in law there doesn't appear to technically be any recourse. This needs to be addressed now as an extreme priority.

The prospect of another referendum being run in such circumstances, is alarming. Without an inquiry into what went wrong, how could you prevent any of this from happening again? There would also be feelings of some kind of establishment stitch-up to reverse the referendum, which could have major implications for trust in democracy in its own right.

There seems to be no easy answer here. And Brexit increasingly looks to be the turkey that was feared, though not exactly in the way the deeply flawed remain campaign made out.

Noises from the disgruntled Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings read like almost a threat to go after the EHCR which is just as poorly understood as the EU. And there is every reason to believe that Lexiter types would also be supportive if that meant they could take property from private ownership and put into state ownership without having to properly compensate.

Worth noting is that Cummings originally deleted his twitter account when this first started to surface. A least one of the whistleblowers was and still is a committed Leaver. Cummings seems rattled, but Cummings was previously on record as saying he wanted to destroy our existing establishment. He's not rattled about the damage to democracy nor I suspect even leaving the EU; he's rattled at prospect of being 'caught'. Make of that what you will.

With that in mind, shouldn't we be the mildest bit cautious about the intentions of Chris Wylie when he says we should have another referendum? Should we be cynical, rather than just accepting this as being great news and getting excited about an opportunity to reverse Brexit? Worst still our failure to be able to trust anything, in itself, is a sign of just how weak our democracy has become.

Are the efforts to dig up a story which should have been dealt with twelve months ago, going to help? Could they cause more damage and further risk our now seemingly ever fragile democracy?

I don't know. Impossible to tell. As Westministenders has said from very early on, the referendum wasn't just about leaving the EU but also a turning of backs on the concepts and principles of democracy. Only now is this really beginning to show its true ugliness to the masses. Even now, few see the real dangers here. Many are so blinded by the hatred of their political 'enemies' they turn a blind eye to their own side's zealotry and dogma.

The danger from the far right was always much more clear to see, but the danger from the far left as it grows bolder is also starting to be alarming.

If you think this is merely about leaving the EU, you are wrong. Even if we do stay in the EU after everything, we may still lose what it is to be a real functioning democracy.

Unless we promote these principles and involve all in society and give them a stake in the future; either inside or outside the EU we will be in a whole world more trouble.

And if that wasn't bad enough. Russian spies and murders plus the appointment of warmonger Bolton at the Whitehouse.

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BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2018 18:33

Well, before Trimble went respectable, he was rather close to some dubious people on the loyalist side.
So he would probably know.

We could have the ridiculous situation of loyalists murdering NI Catholics and probably RoI citizens too, because of decisions by the Uk govt

  • as Loyalists would look pretty daft committing terrorist acts on the British mainland, when they want to be British.

Alternatively, if the Tories choose to wreck the GFA - as Gove & the DUP have always wanted -
and then Corbyn becomes PM, he has a clear route to the Irish Reunification that he believes in so strongly.

All that would stop him is not the loyalist paramilitaries or their DUP sympathisers, but the Irish gov not wanting to be lumbered with the costs and the 19th century Unionist attitudes.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2018 18:34

Peregrina He means the change in the relationship between NI and Britain

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2018 19:01

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3214907-Westminstenders-Throwing-Boomerangs

New thread

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BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2018 19:01

View from Germany: Brits are in denial about their diminishing importance

https://global.handelsblatt.com/opinion/germany-brits-are-in-denial-brexit-905941?

One year after Brexit negotiations started, Britain's place in the world is shrinking fast.

At some point, Theresa May will have to tell her people the truth**
…
On the other side of the English Channel, Ms. May’s upbeat message met with near-total incomprehension.

British nationalists have failed to win over European public opinion.

Contrary to fears, no other EU country has shown any sign of following the British lead.
Even the right-wing nationalist governments of Poland and Hungary remain firmly committed to the EU.

Britain’s impending exit has shifted the balance of power between the UK and the EU, but not at all to London’s advantage.

When the Brexit negotiations began in March 2017, some in the EU feared they could be bamboozled by savvy British diplomats, well-schooled in the country’s imperial tradition.

A year later, things look very different.
Britain’s diplomats are still brilliant, but they have little say in their own country,
making little headway against demagogues and populist deniers of reality like Boris Johnson or David Davis.

Long after the loss of its colonies, Britain continued to benefit from the Empire’s fading aura.
But with Brexit, that magic has finally worn off.

Left to its own devices, Britain is just a medium-sized state with limited global influence, its Empire long gone.

The Commonwealth does not have a seat at the table with the world’s great powers.

So now the prime minister travels the country, trying to hold together the tiny remains of the empire on which the sun never set.
…
Last year, the German chancellor made it known that EU heads of government had better things to do than discuss Brexit.

In future, could the British prime minister deal directly with Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, please?

Dobby1sAFreeElf · 06/04/2018 19:05

Whenever I see something claiming ROI are endangering the peace process I always picture someone angry that they've shat on their own doorstep but the local council won't clear it up.

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