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Brexit

Westminstenders: The 3 Million get their first offer.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 27/06/2017 18:02

The UK have finally put forward their proposals for EU citizens living in the UK. These 'bargaining chips' have been offered a 'generous deal' which is nothing of the sort.

For an in depth look at what it means this is a good summary:
Analysis: what is the UK proposing for EU citizens in the UK and EU citizens in the EU?
This is written by a leading immigration law blogger.

What they suggest, is this is probably what will happen in the event of a no deal situation and that hopefully there can be a better final deal. That does seem to be backed by the comments about EU citizens not needing to do anything now (including apply to remain under existing rules under the 85page document) although they are telling the civil service to prepare for a no deal situation. But who knows? Who can trust them?

What we should all be paying close attention to is not just the detail of this, but the language around it.

Numerous politicians have said that they will wait and see what the EU proposal is, even though it has been out for a couple of weeks. This is an effort to discredit and smear the EU.

This comes after Davis had suggested that the UK had achieved a 'victory' by getting the EU to 'agree' to put citizens rights at the time of priorities to be dealt with, even though it was also the top priority for the EU who refuse to talk about anything else until the matter is settled. Everything is being couched as a victory, even if its merely agreeing with the EU and constitutes a compromise by the UK and a row back from previous comments.

Also flying about a lot is confusion over the ECJ and the EHCR. Some of it is ignorant. Some of it is an effort to discredit and smear the ECJ to force a harder Brexit.

The EU position can be found here: EU proposals for post Brexit EU/UK citizens
It is essentially to preserve ALL current rights.

The UK position is to reduce EU citizens rights. This would also enable them to reduce UK citizens rights in the longer term, so what happens here, isn't just about EU nationals rights its also about UK nationals living in the UK.

Of course the proposals also have more significance for UK citizens living in the EU. The UK government have frequently suggested their use of bargaining chips was to help UK citizens living abroad. What has been put on the table could not be further from the truth. The government is quite happy to screw over UK citizens living in the EU. Probably because they are traitors.

Perhaps the biggest stumbling block to a deal is who oversees it all. The UK want it all done purely by UK courts. This is NOT going to happen (unless we have a no deal). There is no way the EU will compromise on this, due to our dreadful track record in deportations with unlawful behaviour and lack of regard for family life. (Thanks Theresa). Systems on the table as an alternative to the ECJ are a new court system - perhaps even merely one with the same judges but with a different name to appease a ignorant British public - or arbitration which is unlikely as it tends to be for states and not businesses or individuals.

It will be interesting to see how this progresses as it should give a good idea of how much we will compromise.

Its also been pointed out that the paper on EU citizens have been the first public document on Brexit which has had any substance. If I was a cynic I might say that Davis is sitting on his arse waiting for the EU to publish their proposals before and merely copying the EU's homework and making changes to it. If that happens to really be the case, then its perhaps a good thing, as our lot really are bloody useless and have no idea what they are talking about.

OP posts:
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Mrsmartell08 · 27/06/2017 18:07

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ElenaGreco123 · 27/06/2017 18:13

Thanks Red

Valentine2 · 27/06/2017 18:15

Thanks Red

RedPeppers · 27/06/2017 18:15

Thanks Red
A very good summary as usual.

sodablackcurrant · 27/06/2017 18:21

Keep an eye on NI, not only for the DUP element, but also for the status of those who identify as Irish under the GFA. They can be Irish, British or both.

If they identify as Irish, how will that affect their status post Brexit. The plot thickens.

LurkingHusband · 27/06/2017 18:25

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pointythings · 27/06/2017 18:25

As an EU citizen in the UK I would just like to confirm that I am completely underwhelmed by this offer... It reminds me of an automatic care renewal quote - 'here it is, sign it, it's great, we're shafting you'.

Mrsmartell08 · 27/06/2017 18:28

Matching season soon.....

Mrsmartell08 · 27/06/2017 18:28

Matching even
😯

HarryBiscuit · 27/06/2017 18:35

The last thread got away from me, will start afresh with this one.

Mrsmartell08 · 27/06/2017 18:37

MARCHING
ffs

DumbledoresApprentice · 27/06/2017 18:47

The EU citizens that I know here are not happy at all. I have a French friend who had been in this country over 20 years and has British children. She's furious and finds the offer insulting.

DividedKingdom · 27/06/2017 18:48
Grin
RedToothBrush · 27/06/2017 18:50

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/27/philip-hammond-brexit-petty-politics-must-not-hinder-economic-logic?CMP=share_btn_tw
Philip Hammond: Brexit petty politics must not hinder ‘economic logic’

Speaking in Berlin at an event organised by Erhard’s CDU party, Hammond cited – in German – Erhard’s quote: “A compromise is the art of dividing a cake in such a way that everyone believes he has the biggest piece.”

Hammond added: “Wise words with some applicability to the Brexit negotiations although I try to discourage talk of ‘cake’ amongst my colleagues.”

Emphasising the point at the end of the speech, Hammond said the purpose of a Brexit negotiations should be “an outcome that increases the size of the cake for all”.

See my OP about the use of language and casting even compromises and roll backs as victories for the UK.

OP posts:
Mrsmartell08 · 27/06/2017 18:50

Logic!??
Nothing logical about this omnishambles, Phil!!

HashiAsLarry · 27/06/2017 18:52

Placemat king Wink
Thanks red

IrenetheQuaint · 27/06/2017 18:53

Hammond made a joke Shock

BiglyBadgers · 27/06/2017 18:56

I know Irene. The world has truly gone mad. Wink

pointythings · 27/06/2017 18:59

Hashi may I gently remind you that I am the Plaicemat king???

BestIsWest · 27/06/2017 19:11

Place marking too

Sostenueto · 27/06/2017 19:14

Placemark and thanks red x

HashiAsLarry · 27/06/2017 19:16

pointy you will always be my placemat king Flowers

Sostenueto · 27/06/2017 19:17

What if we could have a combined court, half British, half EU? Would that work?

Peregrina · 27/06/2017 19:20

According to reports in the Guardian - this deal excludes Ireland, and the same rules as before apply there, although I can't find the page I read that on right now.

lamado · 27/06/2017 19:22

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