Remainers - What do you want? When do you want it?

[optionalrationale]

We had the referendum, we had the legal challenge, we had the Supreme Court ruling, Article 50 has been triggered. The United Kingdom will no longer be part of the European Union.

So my questions to Remainers are
What do you want? When do you want it?

Here's what I want..

I want the negotiations to go well. I want future relations with our neighbours to be cordial. I want a good deal for UK and the EU. I want us to walk away if their demands are unacceptable (and stem from vindictiveness and to deter other members from following our lead). I want the UK to be free to make good trade deals with any country it wants. I want the UK to lead in creating a new model of trade without excessive interference in each partner's social and political arena.

But isn't dumping surplus goods on trading with our friends in Australia what the bright future holds in Brexitlandia?

Peregrina
Many Southern European politicians will tell you (off the record), that part of the reason why the EU is so much less popular in the UK than in say Italy is that the Brits "actually follow the rules" whereas in many other parts of the EU (including Italy), they are seen as more of a "guideline" - with lots of opportunity for individuals to defraud EU taxpayers ease the wheels of getting things done and making money.

optional

Stuart's nationality is of no more relevance to good decision-making (as opposed to tabloid opportunism) than, say, Andrea Leadsom's children.

Mango Moon is alive and well and very close by. Am most amused though at the tales of poor old Claig being driven from the forum.

This thread has been completely worth it for this comment alone from PattiPenguin

*This explains everything - I have fallen through a wormhole in space-time and fetched up in a parallel universe.

Seriously though, optional, surely you must see that any argument you make is fatally undermined by your inability to get important and well-known facts correct, e.g. one of the most salient features of the state of Belgium.*

Someone so pro-EU but doesn't understand the basics of how it was set up and how it operates...

YES THERE IS AN ASSSEMBLY FOR THE GERMAN SPEAKING MINORITY OF BELGIUM AND YES 25 OFFICIALS REPRESENTING 76000 PEOPLE CAN BLOCK DEALS AFFECTING THE WHOLE OF THE EU.

U ok Hun? Xx

Hello!
Not banned, not a shill.
Worry not Dannythechampion

:)

The Claig thing?

She vanished, having been here for years (apparently) very suddenly and the thread was deleted.

Its seems a bit odd that she'd go at the point without being forced.

"CAN BLOCK DEALS AFFECTING THE WHOLE OF THE EU."

But the EU is undemocratic, and dictates to individual governments what they will and won't be able to do? Surely this example of democracy can't be true!

Bunty
Yeah triffic fanks for arskin hun. U ok bunty, darlin?

" any argument you make is fatally undermined by your inability to get important and well-known facts correct, e.g. one of the most salient features of the state of Belgium"

Pure, pure gold

YES THERE IS AN ASSSEMBLY FOR THE GERMAN SPEAKING MINORITY OF BELGIUM AND YES 25 OFFICIALS REPRESENTING 76000 PEOPLE CAN BLOCK DEALS AFFECTING THE WHOLE OF THE EU.

Isn't democracy just a total bastard.

Important to note that there are qualifiers to your statement: In theory, if future deals follow the departure from tradition seen with Ceta, and if the executive in the national govt in Belgium chooses not to use its power to overrule the regional executives, as was an option with Ceta.

But it should give us all pause for thought about whether a Brexit trade deal will really be determined on the basis of what's in Germany's economic self-interest, as we are so often assured a smooth soft Brexit would be.

I want to see the pro brexiters finally stopping having a go at Remainers as if they were the ones responsible for an issue in the Brexit process.
Seriously, you wanted Brexit, you have it just get onwith it, do some work (unlike Davis David that said he still hasn't looked at what would be the consequence of no deal with the EU) whilst acknowledging that nearly half of the population DID NOT want that.
In the same way that you, brexiters, have been going on and on at how bad the EU was for years after the first referendum. You even created a political party just for that. So please can we have the same courtesy from you now?

What I want to see is a process that is giving the full sovereignty back to the country and that means to the BRITSH PARLIAMENT. No Henry VIII powers and the likes but up to the MP to actually decide rather than a PM that has never been elected (do we even know what is her stance re Brexit? I mean she campaigned for Remain then posirioned herself as a hard Brexit, more at the opposite of each other you couldn't really do, now seems to be going for a softer approach by telling us that actually there will still be FOM for years etc etc. So what is her position??)

And I wish we had a better opposition than what we have so that the will of the people, one that is representing the whole country, not just some of it, is represented during the negociations.
Actually I would have expected MPs to do that because they are elected to represent their constituents not the party, but that seems to go gone wary too.

And actually I don't really want the UK to stay in the EU. It has proven again and again that it was and will be detrimental to the EU so actually that might have been a good thing for them.

Hopefully the PM will be listening to experts, her diplomats etc... to be able to negotiate the best deal. I'm not holding my breath. That means listening to 'experts'....

nearly half the population didn't want that.

Isn't democracy a bastard?

Democracy doesn't mean one person, one vote, once though, its an ongoing process.

A huge number of the leave vote have proved that their vote wasn't really about democracy and sovereignty with their behaviour regarding the high court and supreme court rulings, many of the lead advocates very much so.

52% baby. More than any British political party in recent memory.
isn't democracy just a total bastard?

Yes, in an advisory referendum, not a general election, so the two aren't comparable, as there are never 2 options in a general election.

Isn't democracy a bastard? Well yes leave voters appear to think so? What with your shut up you lost rhetoric etc.

Goad all you like, but leavers aren't going to get what they voted for, apart from a symbolic leaving of the EU.

We'll still pay in.
Immigration won't fall.
We actually will have less say over laws that exporting firms have to follow.
Workers rights will be trashed.
The poor and vulnerable will be worse off.

Funny.

Danny
"A huge number of the leave vote have proved that their vote wasn't really about democracy and sovereignty with their behaviour regarding the high court and supreme court rulings, many of the lead advocates very much so."

U ok hun?

Yes pettle, just fine.

But that's the truth hun innit, I mean, you can't have the rag that backed your campaign the most claiming its about British laws for British people one moment, and then calling British Judges ruling on the British constitution traitors the next.

Troof hurt does it? :)

" Well yes leave voters appear to think so? What with your shut up you lost rhetoric etc."

U ok hun? Xxx

"British laws for British people one moment, and then calling British Judges ruling on the British constitution traitors the next"

U really sure your Ok hun? Cos I care y'know. Don't go doin' nuffink shchooopid or nuffink. Elp is available.

I want:
My job to remain safe (linked to third level education so if the number of students at Uni, especially foreign students drop, funding levels drop and my job might go, bit of a stretch but possible.The changes the govmt are bringing in are more likely to have an immediate impact than Brexit though)
Interest rates not to go sky high as I've just got a mortgage for the first time and I'd like to be able to continue paying it!
To not have to choose between staying in the country or becoming a British citizen.
No hard borders in the North
No flare ups destabilising peace in Northern Ireland
And quite a bit more beside.

But mostly, I want to know what it will mean for me and my family. I hate the not knowing.

Thank you NotaMammy

In the binary choice between
a) Hoping the Brexit negotiations go as well as possible for the UK and
b) Hoping the negotiations don't go well and the EU play hardball
Where do you stand?

nearly half the population didn't want that.

Isn't democracy a bastard?

Sorry but could you explain??
I'm assuming this a comment about my post and that you have an issue with taking into account the wish of 48.2% of the population,as if they just didn't exist??
That's not what a democracy is.
Getting the 51% of the vite means that the Art50 has been triggered, which it has.
The vite NEVER said

• what sort of Brexit we would aim at, and certainly not a hard Brexit
• that all immigration had to be controlled. The vote was Yes or No to stay in the EU.
• that the PM could do whatever she wanted wo asking the Parliaments
• that Brexit could be used a cover for a lot fo other decisions that aren't talked about or discussed
• that the Remainers had to just shut up. A democracy will always let the opposition have a word. And because of that, it means that the policies of the party with the majority will be influenced by it (e.g. If it implements a policy increasing taxes and people go to streets against it). Otherwise it's close to a dictatorship
• that the Tories were THE holder of all Brexit decisions. Plenty of people who aren't Tories have voted to go out and plenty of Tories didn't. Hey is it that one part of the Tory party seem to be the only holder of the meaning fo Brexit??