Remainers - What do you want? When do you want it?

[optionalrationale]

We had the referendum, we had the legal challenge, we had the Supreme Court ruling, Article 50 has been triggered. The United Kingdom will no longer be part of the European Union.

So my questions to Remainers are
What do you want? When do you want it?

Here's what I want..

I want the negotiations to go well. I want future relations with our neighbours to be cordial. I want a good deal for UK and the EU. I want us to walk away if their demands are unacceptable (and stem from vindictiveness and to deter other members from following our lead). I want the UK to be free to make good trade deals with any country it wants. I want the UK to lead in creating a new model of trade without excessive interference in each partner's social and political arena.

I think maybe Claig was the same person all the time, but smallfox might have been a paid poster.

Interesting.

I am in Brussels every second week and I can tell you that the action of the Walloon parliament was widely viewed as an embarrassment and they were deeply worried as to how this would characterise the nation that hosts the executive of the EU.

I am in the UK most of the time, and I can tell you that the actions of the UK government in relation to Brexit are widely viewed as an embarrassment and that nearly everyone I know is deeply worried as to how this will characterise the nation that hosts the Vulcan wing of the Conservative party.

"Vulcan wing of the Conservative party".

Genius !

Smallfox was certainly a one off and will be remembered by a lot of people, including me, for all the wrong reasons and that fact that she still gets mentioned is testament to that.

I miss Claigs postsand it's a shame she left but having been on the end of a smallfox rant no, good riddance to him/her.

Mangomoon certainly didn't get banned.

I#m glad to hear that. :)

I liked smallfox and claig. Very interesting posters!

I think mumsnet referendum debates were at their worst when there was a cohort just taking the piss out of redtoothbrush and posts/posters on her threads. It was...horrible.
I was surprised they got away with it.

I missed that part of RTB's threads tinyhands, I only started following them properly when things had begun to settle down a bit more (a few months post ref).
Posters being twats for the sake of it is rubbish on any thread.

WM & RTB are part of the Brexit woodwork now - as is the Brexit Arms!! would be weird without them.

Yeuch

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/09/pro-brexit-group-unveils-plan-to-cut-net-migration-to-50000-a-year

Another group of people who don't want British young people to be allowed to aspire to work or study overseas. Just because they have their own limited and parochial horizons, I don't see why they should be allowed to foist those same horizons on others.

And how vile to see Conservatives cosying up to the likes of Stephen Woolf. No wonder UKIP Is dying - it's being swallowed whole by the Conservative Party.

Saw that discussed last night somewhere - I think most reasonably minded people accept that an arbitrary number set for immigration is ridiculous tbh, Leavers as well as Remainers.

Managing/controlling immigration isn't a numbers game, it's making sure that it's balanced properly and is flexible.

Yup, so we're back to immigration being the driving force behind the referendum.

Immigration has been flagged as a concern from voters on both sides.

"I liked smallfox and claig. Very interesting posters!

I think mumsnet referendum debates were at their worst when there was a cohort just taking the piss out of redtoothbrush and posts/posters on her threads. It was...horrible."

Histiny - you objected to those taking the piss out of redtoothbrush yet you liked smallfox who was one of the most vindictive posters I've ever seen on mumsnet?

I dont think I saw smallfox or claig at their er most vindictive but when they posted factually they were great.

Yeah, when posters were going on and on about boring rtb and 'ooh look how hysterical they are about trumps Muslim ban ha ha, hilarious!' i felt it was a referendum threads low- which is saying something.

Histiny thank you for answering mynquestion.

Let's see some tangible information from Remain groups about cutting immigration.
Today's news, for example has
Leave means Leave wanting to cut unskilled migrants, and work permits only being offered to those earning more than £35,000. I don't see any Remain groups backing them up.

The other day we had a petition started by an anaesthetist who is going to be asked to leave the country because he doesn't earn that much. I don't see any Remain groups saying that this is the right policy for the NHS.

Figment
The Vulcan wing of the Conservative party.
You may, or perhaps may not, be surprised to learn I am actually from the Klingon wing of the Labour party.

Accusations of being a xenophobic and racist do rather fall flat when you consider that people like Kate Hoey, Graham Stringer, Kelvin Hopkins and Roger Godsiff are also opposed to the EU on points of principle about how it was designed and how it is run. Gisela Stuart is a politician of the highest integrity, born in West Germany, and therefore an "immigrant" herself. I also happen to be married to someone of a different race btw... so I do rather
at people calling me racist here.

Yet the remain campaign still relies on shrill cries of "You're racist!" or "You're stupid", "You're provincial", "You're poor" in the face of any points of disagreement about the EU debate.

This attitude tipped several decent, fair minded British voters I know who had been undecided until the last weeks of the campaign. These are people who can't stand Farridge and his ilk but were no longer going to put with being told they must be racist if they happen to question eg the funding and design of a failing political institution.

But if you genuinely believe accusing those who happen to disagree with you as racist is a winning strategy then keep at it. I am sure this strategy will win support for a second referendum and you will stomp to victory next time round.

Optional Your Australian example is a little mystifying. Australia has some of the highest food prices in the world, far more expensive than the U.K. The reason is that the government has neglected food production and allowed an effective monopoly to develop between the two main supermarkets Coles and Woolworths. Food producers have a massive and rapidly expanding Asian market where they enjoy a brand for quality but at the moment they are failing to capitalise on it, because via the two supermarkets and consumers who have absorbed the costs via higher wages they get higher prices at home, Cheap tomatoes from the EU are not at the root of Australia's food production and cost issues. Like everything else everywhere else but Brexit land it is far more complicated located than that

"Leave means Leave wanting to cut unskilled migrants, and work permits only being offered to those earning more than £35,000"

This reminds me of the referendum campaign and Priti Patel.

If an anaesthetist doesn't earn that much, I wonder if Bangladeshi curry chefs do? Remember Priti Patel and the whole 'save the British curry'. Seemingly British curry houses weren't able to train people how to cook these curries and had to bring people in from Bangladesh. I wonder if it had something to do with the peanuts pay being offered. The reasoning was if less EU people were allowed in, more people from places such as Bangladesh could be given visas. I would be sceptical if the curry restaurants were going to pay over the £35,000.

I remember watching something on TV where 'Leave' campaigners were selling this angle to areas with a high number of Asian voters. Sort of, "your family will find it easier to get into the UK if less EU citizens are coming in". I'll try to dig out if it is still available, later on. I don't remember them saying only as long as they will earn over £35,000.

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/minister-priti-patel-quit-eu-to-save-our-curry-houses-a3251071.html

Optional

It is a strange world in which describing politicians as Vulcan (which traditionally calls to mind the likes of Redwood, Raab, Howard etc) is racist. Some of them also seem to have a lot in common with the Slitheen, but maybe Dr Who is even more abusive than Star Trek in your book.

Operation, "Klingon wing of the Labour party"

You'd better not converse in Klingon as you know how non-English languages go down.

WhatwouldRonDo
My comment was focused more on Italy and the impact the EU regulations have on industrial scale food production and the very environmentally unfriendly practise of dumping cheap product on a market on the other side of the world..

Italian farmers get paid (by EU tax payers) NOT to grow tomatoes (so as to keep prices artificially high). Lots of them go ahead and grow the tomatoes they have been paid not to. These then are supplied to often dubious processors and exporters who are then able to ship all the way to Australia and "dumped" at prices making it difficult for local producers to compete.

Everyone's a winner baby.

I agree that plum tomatoes do not count for a lot when it comes to the total GDP of the EU, but this was one of the things holding up an FTA between the EU and Australia

Racist? The Vulcans don't really exist. Or the Klingons

The least damage possible, and that when we beg to be let back in we'll be treated kindly.

Lots of them go ahead and grow the tomatoes they have been paid not to. These then are supplied to often dubious processors and exporters who are then able to ship all the way to Australia and "dumped" at prices making it difficult for local producers to compete.

So this isn't EU law; it's people choosing to break the laws which exist?

Personally, I would like to see the current incarnation of the Tory party destroy itself, i.e. the post-Thatcher party. I would wish for this regardless of Brexit.