Should we guarantee the rights of eu citzens to remain unilaterally

[ReallyTired]

I think we should. They came here with the belief that they could live here.

I suppose the argument is that Spain and France may not show compassion to British citizens who have emigrated. Certainly Spain may well be tempted to use it as leverage to gain sovernity of Gibraltar. I think the chances of the French being vindictive is less.

If Scotland leaves the uk and joins the EU could there be an arrangement where ex pats become Scottish citizens? (Even if they are 100% English or Welsh) in the event of British citizens being sent back?

[Blue4ever]

About 10% of registered doctors and 4%of registered nurses in this country are European immigrants. If they leave the NHS will collapse.

55,000 out of the 1.2 million staff in the English NHS are citizens of other EU countries, according to the English Health Service’s Electronic Staff Record. That's without counting all the support highly skilled staff? good luck.

Shall we swop them for all the retired British people in Spain, France, Portugal... That would be fun!

[NotDavidTennant]

There's no way anyone can believe that it would be logistically (or politically) possible to deport all EUs citizens from the UK. Given that she is Home Secretary, Theresa May knows this as well as anybody.

[MangosteenSoda]

I am naively amazed that people actually voted thinking there would be some kind of mass round up and deportation of foreigners. Dear God!

May is not saying much because, when it comes down to it, everything has to be discussed, everything has to be negotiated, and it's an unfortunate reality that you don't put your cards on the table before you have to.

I will be amazed if all current residents are not given the right to stay.

[Blue4ever]

' I voted out assuming that all people without British citizenship would have to apply for right to stay based on the new points system'. Who actually promised that? It was not a referendum promise, nobody ever said that. How on earth could you come to that conclusion? And don't you feel a bit cheated now that whoever said anything about point system for immigration has deserted the political scene? Apart from Gove. Fat chance that he will ever be able to implement his promise. And do you have any idea how destabilising this would be for employers, communities, families? The economy in general? The NHS?

I have followed the referendum debates quite well and every time the 'point system' argument was used it was to be applied for immigrants after we'd leave the EU, not retrospectively.

[citroenpresse]

Immigrants who work cash in hand for less than the minimum wage deserve to be kicked out

or maybe employers who refuse to abide by minimum wage law deserve to be prosecuted?

[Blue4ever]

I have used many builders to work on various projects and the only ones working fully above board were non English. All English builders I have had quotes for want cash in hand, or part cash in hand. So I have never hired an English builder except for double glazing.

I think you will find that employers have a responsibility for that cash in hand stuff and the employers are English.

[Blue4ever]

Sorry cross post citroen

[crossroads3]

No. I voted out assuming that all people without British citizenship would have to apply for right to stay based on the new points system.

Am shocked that anyone could have this attitude.

[Blue4ever]

And it all lead us to this www.torquayheraldexpress.co.uk/disgusting-anti-eu-graffiti-outside-health-centre-in-torquay-causes-twitter-storm/story-29482666-detail/story.html.

[EverythingWillBeFine]

Well as an EU citizen, I suspect that what will happen is some sort of mix where 'qualified' EEA citizens will be able to stay but others won't.
I have no idea where it will leave my friend who has been a SAHM for the last 15 years though. (As I dont believe she will qualified, not having worked here fur so long)
I not sure where it will leave another friend who is only stayjvg because she fit divorced and the courts won't let her go back home with her dcs.

[nulgirl]

I am a remain voter married to an EU resident but totally agree with not guaranteeing anything at the moment. We are going to enter into negotiations with the EU regarding a variety of issues and should not weaken our hand by promising unilaterally to allow EU residents to stay as it might be a useful bargaining chip in the future. The uncertainty is crap but this is what a leave vote has meant.

[Fawful]

Except that politicians might not be using us as bargaining chips so much as trying to say what they think voters want to hear, in which case resigning yourself to your DH's fate is not going to help...

[YourPerception]

I think anyone moving after a Brexit decision are less likely to be allowed to stay in a country they are not a citizen. If you moved before Brexit you will have thought you were free to make a life for yourself in another EU country. I think it's cruel to make these people leave wherevever they are.

[YourPerception]

About 10% of registered doctors and 4%of registered nurses in this country are European immigrants. If they leave the NHS will collapse How many NHS patients are EU nationals? If a similar percentage number use the NHS it will not collapse and you are scaremongering.

[citroenpresse]

4.7% of the current British population was born in other EU countries. 55,000 NHS employees, for example. That we would be asking every one of them to apply for right to stay based on new points system is a ludicrous assumption!

[APlaceOnTheCouch]

We should guarantee their rights but we can't atm because it's a bargaining position.

The Leave campaign never said it would deport immigrants who were already settled here. Morally it would be wrong and logistically it would be a nightmare. The countries that currently have settled UK citizens will not want to deport them either.

However, we are still in the posturing/negotiating stage so no guarantees will be given at this point.

If Cameron had triggered Article 50 the morning after the referendum (as he had said he would) then there may have been fractionally less uncertainty at this stage as negotiations could have begun already.

[citroenpresse]

RE users of NHS, most EU migrants are younger and healthier. The pressure on the NHS comes from Britain's own ageing population. Who is going to pay for it? Not those who can afford to pay, if we continue to vote in Tory governments.

[SnowBells]

But what if the EU nations nullify the argument of 'bargaining chips' by giving British citizens in the EU dual citizenship? That's certainly what Germany is suggesting.

[EverythingWillBeFine]

I love this idea that there are some talks on the other side of the Channel about how British citizen abroad can be given an 'European' citizenship but somehow we are still wondering whether sending EU nationals 'back home' is a possibility

Perception there are 3 millions EU citizens (Not sure how many of them have dual citizenship like my dcs for example), that's about 4% of the population.
The average age of EU citizens is younger (very few of them are retirement age) so will need less access to the NHS.
So in effect, you can take away 5% of the population, incl 5% of nurses and ... Your ratio stays the same.
Or 10% of doctors and you will be worse off.

Except that the immigration system is well done so you won't kick doctors and nurses out (same with the new immigration laws) so you still have your doctors and nurses.... (That's what I can having your cake and eat it btw)

[Blue4ever]

' How many NHS patients are EU nationals? If a similar percentage number use the NHS it will not collapse and you are scaremongering'

About 5% of the U.K. population are EU migrants, but I expect you to already know that. As others have said, a majority are young and pay their taxes, they create jobs, employ people, they study, they Spend money here. Buy homes here. They use the NHS of course but a lot less than our 'native' aging population. And the NHS CAN reclaim part of the cost for their use of the NHS back from the Eu. Did you know that too?

[Blue4ever]

europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/health/unplanned-healthcare/payments-reimbursements/index_en.htm

[SnowBells]

Agree with what EverythingWillBeFine said.

Some people are truly disgusting.

[citroenpresse]

*Triggering Article 50 straight away would have led to less uncertainty"
When it is absolutely clear that we are hopelessly unprepared and there are so many different assumption about what we have voted FOR? (Reducing immigration at any cost (including to ourselves)? Spending more money on the NHS (now at its lowest investment level since the 1950s)? Norwegian 'model'? Swiss 'model', WTO, EEA? The damage to Britain's reputation is already done in voting leave.

[BreakingDad77]

I voted out assuming that all people without British citizenship would have to apply for right to stay based on the new points system.

At the risk of this being seen as ganging up, but you aren't the only leaver that thinks this. This idea had as much water as the damned £350M. immigration will be wholly tied to the brexit negotiation. Any points based systems would only be part of an out-out disengagement from EU which non of the main parties seem to be advocating.

TBH points based is a load of rubbish anyway as companies will just lobby for relaxation of quotas etc to fit with their demand.

If you start making noises of cut off dates etc then guess there could be a big rush from poverty stricken migrants rather than migrants coming here to work/pay tax contribute?

What will happen to all those retiree's coming back to 'strain our NHS' instead of the spanish one.

But again we subconsciously falling into the immigrants trap where people aren't accepting that they contribute more than claim.

Who would deal with all of these getting people status checked etc- ATOS, G4S coming to your houses or you being summoned for assessment?

[citroenpresse]

In any case, there seem to be many MNers who voted leave who said immigration had nothing to do with their decision to vote leave. So the 'assumption' that immigration would decline is just that - an assumption (and likely to be a wrong assumption).