Should we guarantee the rights of eu citzens to remain unilaterally

[ReallyTired]

I think we should. They came here with the belief that they could live here.

I suppose the argument is that Spain and France may not show compassion to British citizens who have emigrated. Certainly Spain may well be tempted to use it as leverage to gain sovernity of Gibraltar. I think the chances of the French being vindictive is less.

If Scotland leaves the uk and joins the EU could there be an arrangement where ex pats become Scottish citizens? (Even if they are 100% English or Welsh) in the event of British citizens being sent back?

[citroenpresse]

Leave campaigners said it was a vote for 'control'. Do they have some elixir of life that will prevent us growing old?

[DorothyL]

Eu citizen here who's lived here 18 years, British dh, children...

I will have to stop reading these threads because I'm currently sitting waiting while ds has his swimming lesson and trying not to cry.


What is happening in this country that people are actually suggesting sending people like me back? This is my home and my whole life! Though the way things are going I might be tempted to leave anyway, if it wasn't for the dc's...

[Blue4ever]

Nobody will send you back Drothy, or any EU citizens. politicians who say that are completely irresponsible and are encouraging division. I am an immigrant but apparently one of the good ones as I am from a commonwealth country so I was told by my so called friends. It's disgraceful that people threaten you in that way. I am hoping that common sense will kick in soon.

[Blue4ever]

I think that all immigrants should go on strike for a week and see what happens to the country...

[TheElementsSong]

I think that all immigrants should go on strike for a week and see what happens to the country...

Not a good idea, sadly, as I believe it will simply harden attitudes amongst the xenophobes and piss off the moderates.

[YourPerception]

Why are you atributing things to me I didn't say?

Where are the figures backing up the ages and health of EU nationals? My parents and their siblings are in their 70's and most have had cancer at least once. A good few worked in the NHS since the '60's none of them do anymore though. They are now pensioners. They were one of the few EU national groups allowed to vote. They said the pension is better in Ireland anyways if they can't pass the citizenship test. Though that's more likely our humour. None of us seriously don't think those who came before Brexit will be deported.

there are 3 millions EU citizens (Not sure how many of them have dual citizenship like my dcs for example), that's about 4% of the population.
The average age of EU citizens is younger (very few of them are retirement age) so will need less access to the NHS.
So in effect, you can take away 5% of the population, incl 5% of nurses and ... Your ratio stays the same.
Or 10% of doctors and you will be worse off.

Except that the immigration system is well done so you won't kick doctors and nurses out (same with the new immigration laws) so you still have your doctors and nurses.... (That's what I can having your cake and eat it btw)

[YourPerception]

To be clear the reason I am challenging you is because people do feel taken for fools and it's why in part we ended up with a Brexit.


If you lecture people with no evidence people will think you are gaslighting. The EU migrant net contributor thing is easy to believe if you are MC living next door to a doctor. Not something that will be believed if you love next door to and work in a factory alongside an EU national on a low income. You would know how much tax they pay how much tax credits are school and maternity care are. You would believe what you see as truth.

Why should someone accept all EU migrants are young and in good health if they love next door to old ill EU migrants?

[Helmetbymidnight]

A third friend was racially abused in the street last night. That's just three people I know since the referendum. Ironically - I don't know if the word is ironic but- anyway they are all British yet were told they have to get out.

It's terrible.

[LurkingHusband]

I wonder how far down the line ID cards are now, given some of the issues this thread has thrown up ?

Given that it was the Brexiters that were most trenchant in their opposition to ID cards, remainers can savour the irony that it was Brexit which finally forced the UK to accept them.

I'm just picturing what the photos on Boris Johnson and Nigel Farages would look like ... less than happy campers, I suspect.

[Blue4ever]

What is this rubbish about have your cake and eat it too? Is that what you want, cherry picking good things about immigration and rejecting anything that would mean some level of concession ? Lovely. Charming. get the hard labourer out, make sure they don't get ill otherwise we send the, back. As I said, let's hope common sense kicks in soon.

[citroenpresse]

Simon Stevens, the man who runs the NHS, on the dangers of a BREXIT
www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/22/nhs-chief-simon-stevens-brexit-dangerous-health-service

[MangoMoon]

A third friend was racially abused in the street last night. That's just three people I know since the referendum. Ironically - I don't know if the word is ironic but- anyway they are all British yet were told they have to get out.

It's terrible.

It is. It's disgusting.
That's why they need to make a proper statement now that anyone already living here prior to the 24th of June can get citizenship, with no caveat.

Stop using those people as pawns and take away that part of any uncertainty.

[YourPerception]

Everythingwillbefine was the person in the quote talking about cake.

[Blue4ever]

Simon Steven is an expert, Brexiters don't believe in experts.

[citroenpresse]

It's not all BREXITERS that don't believe in experts, it's Michael Gove! He's the one lecturing people but let's fight against that with facts!. Let's be positive here Blue4ever

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

Do all brexiters think the same

Many people don't trust experts

The last recession was not predicted by many experts with knowledge of what was going on

are experts politically neutral

[MangoMoon]

Brexiters don't believe in experts.

This is the equivalent of "Remainers believe in sweeping generalisations"

[citroenpresse]

No, THIS is what a sweeping generalisation looks like….

The last recession was not predicted by many experts with knowledge of what was going on

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

It wasn't

Some did but far far too many didn't what strategy plans did governments have in place

Trees don't grow to the sky

[citroenpresse]

EnthusiasmDisabled Why on earth would expect 'an expert' to be politically neutral? What does that mean? We are not sheep waiting to be told 'the facts' by 'an expert'. There is advice we trust and that we don't. And we have our own beliefs. But in the case of the leave campaign, there are also lies. Thankfully, lots of experts have pointed those out now.

This is exactly the problem the Tories have…Mark Carney (let's all agree he IS an expert), suggested what might happen with a BREXIT vote. And, thank heavens because he IS an expert, he had a contingency plan! But all of the Leave campaigners were up in arms that he had the temerity to speak up.

[MangoMoon]

all of the Leave campaigners were up in arms that he had the temerity to speak up.

all of them....?!

[citroenpresse]

EnthusiamDisabled, you are describing how crap a lot of governments are, not 'experts'

[MangoMoon]

Sorry, I'm being flippant & I shouldn't be - not on this thread

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

All of them

Not all those that voted leave have the same beliefs/thoughts/ideas

Like not all those that voted remain do

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

Governments take advice from experts

Often to suit their agenda

The last recession caught so many out that includes all the experts employed by many large financial institutions. Look how RBS operated