So the people were right about EU Superstate Military....

[SayWhat123]

"Has Britain avoided a ‘European superstate’? France and Germany ‘draw up plans to morph EU countries into one with control over members’ armies and economies’"

"Plans for 'a closer European Union' have been branded an attempt to create a 'European superstate'.

Germany's foreign minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier and his French counterpart Jean-Marc Ayrault today presented a proposal for closer EU integration based on three key areas - internal and external security, the migrant crisis, and economic cooperation.

But the plans have been described as an 'ultimatum' in Poland, with claims it would mean countries transfer their armies, economic systems and border controls to the EU."

*Apparently Poland is very unhappy with this as they do not want German troops on their soil again and have threatened to negotiate with Russians (whom they were recently asking for protection from).

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3662827/Has-Britain-avoided-European-superstate-France-Germany-draw-plans-morph-EU-countries-one-control-members-armies-economies.html

Why should we be optimistic when all the relevant analysis points in the other direction.

Stop making platitudes and face facts.

This is the opposite of the "project fear" calls your side issued in the run up.

Its infuriating.

Oh well still better than Boris

yep I agree on that one!

Why should we be optimistic when all the relevant analysis points in the other direction

Because it's draining and demotivating. It's expecting the sky to fall down this second and getting angry when other posters will not be forced in to your way of thinking. You must be absolutly spent!

small people think differently.

Your mindset of doom and disaster is pretty boring TBH.

Many of us are in this for the long game and are, believe it or not, feeling inspired and optimistic. I know that sounds ridiculous to you and I don't mean to patronise. You are indeed right there is uncertainty ahead.

But my mindset is completely different to yours.

You wallow. I don't!

Maybe with murmurings of a parliamentary vote against repealing the ECA and talks of retaining the single market and having another referendum or general election based on EU manifestoes, there is a little fluctuation because it is not definite yet.

I know that it would appear to be politically untenable to not trigger article fifty, but it has not happened yet. Maybe the true reaction would be felt then.

Article 50 can't be triggered until we have a plan. We won't have a plan until there is a new Tory leader. A new Tory leader will defy the EU and start holding talks with individual EU countries.

Hold tight everyone!

Oh and the young are taking to the streets

Amazing, isn't it - and such a pity that so few could be bothered to spend a fraction of the time needed for this in popping a vote into the ballot box

brilliant Oxford debate

www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/mogherinis-global-strategy-moves-beyond-zero-sum-game/ Mogherini unveils new defence plans. France and Germany have also apparently unveiled a paper about deeper integration and EU wide taxation, but none of the MSM seemed to have picked up this yet. Dh just came home from work with the news of the above.

The Visegrad group won't like it.

Kimononono

Thank you for sharing this video, Hannan is a very eloquent speaker with some convincing arguments, regardless of that daft interview with Evan davies.

I wish he were in the running for the leadership...

Sorry btw, I am back, but thought this was a different thread. Either way, good video.

I have seen so many people doing THIS lately. On MN, on FB, in person. Take a deep breath and calm down. Change can be good. Yes, it can mean a temporary downturn, but that is to be expected.

Admittedly, it's pointless to to try and talk anyone around. Some seem determined to be all doom and gloom. It must be so exhausting.

Ginger, the sky not falling isn't a measure of success. You could say that about anything - rape, murder, genocide, you name it. The sky doesn't fall. The world never ends. It'll all tick on regardless.

Meanwhile it's not ok to dismiss people's feelings about unfolding events by calling them drama queens.

If you're right you can smugly crow in time (and we'll all be damn relieved about it too). I hope you are!

"If you're right you can smugly crow in time (and we'll all be damn relieved about it too). I hope you are!"

Me too!

The actual sky not falling in is an unacceptably low benchmark of success.

Trying to imagine saying that to my boss

"The actual sky not falling in is an unacceptably low benchmark of success."

I'm making a note of this for GCSE results day.