So the people were right about EU Superstate Military....

[SayWhat123]

"Has Britain avoided a ‘European superstate’? France and Germany ‘draw up plans to morph EU countries into one with control over members’ armies and economies’"

"Plans for 'a closer European Union' have been branded an attempt to create a 'European superstate'.

Germany's foreign minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier and his French counterpart Jean-Marc Ayrault today presented a proposal for closer EU integration based on three key areas - internal and external security, the migrant crisis, and economic cooperation.

But the plans have been described as an 'ultimatum' in Poland, with claims it would mean countries transfer their armies, economic systems and border controls to the EU."

*Apparently Poland is very unhappy with this as they do not want German troops on their soil again and have threatened to negotiate with Russians (whom they were recently asking for protection from).

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3662827/Has-Britain-avoided-European-superstate-France-Germany-draw-plans-morph-EU-countries-one-control-members-armies-economies.html

It is extraordinarily annoying that anything not agreeing with "leave" is described as hysterical.

It's a pretty mild criticism in comparison to how leave voters have been described.

How would anyone describe the remain threads right now?

clear headed calm logical ready to move on?

no. they are shrill and hysterical.

The future, Cameron gave a good speech yesterday re free movement, I am glad he has held his course on article 50 - and I hope we get a new leader soon ( may or leadsom) .

Its just a question of how much merkel is willing to sacrifice to keep EU afloat...

A pattern across these boards anyway is building up of posters who do not want to give people a vote...

"A pattern across these boards anyway is building up of posters who do not want to give people a vote..."
Sources, please?

Yes Dahlia, I agree, and the thought that there are growing calls to block people who dont 'fit the mould' from voting is extremely worrying, where does it stop?

Bertrand, its on the boards, if your so interested read the boards.

Thefurture, this is what I mean, its frightening isn't it? What next, ghettos badges forced sterilization?

Mold.. Jeez, whats wrong with my fingers today!

Oh right. You can't back it up then. Thought not.

It would be more worrying if remain had won, thankfully they didn't.

I never saw any leave voter in spite of being on the weaker leave side that would probably loose, ever say they didn't want anyone to not have the vote.

Bertrand have you followed any posts/threads on this? Because thefuture has obv

I also know I could take my time and trawl through and diligently and stupidly pick out these comments I have seen time and time and time again, but I know full well you would then, disappear and ignore them. Thats a MO I have observed.

the sky is crying - used to discribe the rain on the 24th this isn't hysterical ? No?

bert and it's extremely annoying that any one that voted leave is ignorant, uneducated old selfish twats.

It works both sides.

Two sides that are now refusing to listen to each other point of view.

thefuture I agree, because the major parties have balls up in the past decade it's caused huge unrest as people are not happy. They have used this ref. as starting point to show this. DC put a option on the table with no actual plan, how out of touch is this government with its people? Did he really think that all the people would carry on following the pied piper blindly?

So back to the original post, EU military state? It's not beyond the realms of possibility.

I also don't get the young vs old narrative. Ds (20) voted remain; dh and I both now over 50 ( so not old, 85 is old) voted leave. Ds can see why we voted as we did, and is perfectly sanguine about the result, as he can see the flaws with the EU. He doesn't feel we are ruining his life chances.

He would quite like to do his MA abroad, but not in Europe, as we already live there.

Oh right. You can't back it up then. Thought not*

have you genuinly not seen any comments regarding certain people not voting. Honestly?

These was a thread this morning about people who did not have GCSE being able to vote for one!

I certainly don't think people who live in Europe should have been allowed a vote if EU citizens here were not.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2673551-democracy-intelligent-people-vs-stupid-people was certainly heading in that direction, and I have seen comments on other threads that have been moved to this board.

Bertrand is being just a tad disingenuous to suggest that she hasn't seen them

"A pattern across the boards" is more than a couple of people. I could say that there is a pattern across the boards for practically anything if I wanted to.

Why not Smallfox? The rules say that Crown Servants and HM Forces can vote in any election regardless of how long they have been out of the country, and others can vote for up to 15 years after they have left. Many will be UK taxpayers, be planning to return depending on work contracts, and retain property in the UK. Why shouldn't we exercise our democratic right to vote?

But the EU residents here are tax payers too are they not, many of them have been here for more than 5 years and are planning on remaining and making a life here, they have a vested interest in the future of the country. Why shouldn't they get a vote either?

Because they didn't let EU nationals here vote. I could accept not letting those who had been here less than 5 years but I think those above that should have voted. They have a vested interest in the country and are tax payers too , so all your arguments stand for them too.

I don't vote in Belgium as it is not my country, even though I have been here more than 5 years. If I were to apply for Belgian citizenship, then I would vote here, and not in the UK.

If people have applied for citizenship, then fair enough, but other than that, no.

I think as a member of the EU anyone should have been able to vote who is an EU citizen with permanent residence.

I think as a member of the EU anyone should have been able to vote who is an EU citizen with permanent resident

And that's a very nice example what is meant by the EU Superstate, I think only British citizens should vote on the future of Britain.
This argument is pointless because fundamentally we are going to disagree on this issue. Leavers don't want a slow inexorable move to a Superstate. Remain voters either do, don't believe it can happen or don't realise it is happening.
I am gutted that so may Remainers are so upset. I think hysterical is an unfair adjective to use distraught, grief struck, terrified is coming across and its horrible to witness. But no amount of discussion will ever change my vote (or other Leavers I have discussed this with in the last days, weeks, or even years).

Oops meant to bold that not strike through

In what way is it allowing a EU super state to allow people who live here and contribute tax?

Firmly attach that tin foil hat.

I can't even go into the EU superstate drivel you lot spout.

Did the moon landings really happen? I'm sure you believe Prince Phillip ordered Diana's death too.

Ahhh... There you go Small, being condescending again. It always reverts to this 'I cant be arsed with this argument, so I shall just reassert my superiority so that you all know I look down on you' crap.

What a shame we cannot just accept there were reasoned and un reasonable arguments from BOTH sides and drop the superiority competition.