So the people were right about EU Superstate Military....

[SayWhat123]

"Has Britain avoided a ‘European superstate’? France and Germany ‘draw up plans to morph EU countries into one with control over members’ armies and economies’"

"Plans for 'a closer European Union' have been branded an attempt to create a 'European superstate'.

Germany's foreign minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier and his French counterpart Jean-Marc Ayrault today presented a proposal for closer EU integration based on three key areas - internal and external security, the migrant crisis, and economic cooperation.

But the plans have been described as an 'ultimatum' in Poland, with claims it would mean countries transfer their armies, economic systems and border controls to the EU."

*Apparently Poland is very unhappy with this as they do not want German troops on their soil again and have threatened to negotiate with Russians (whom they were recently asking for protection from).

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3662827/Has-Britain-avoided-European-superstate-France-Germany-draw-plans-morph-EU-countries-one-control-members-armies-economies.html

time.com/4381991/brexit-europe-next-steps/ was interesting - Verhofstadt seeming reasonable until point 3.

All those countries joined together under the reign of a few men.

I'm confused. Do you mean the 473 male and 278 female directly elected members of the European Parliament?

MrsLupo I think she means the five Presidents, or Juncker, Tusk, Schulz and the unelected commissioners.

No I'm talking about the three European Presidents.

X post scary

Which two of the five are you omitting?

the aim is political and fiscal union, a single currency and free movement of people

one superstate controlled by an un elected few

We had this thread already.

T'is bollocks. The lot of it.

I'm about ready to beat myself round the head with the 'pooter with all of this.

I've had it work tonight about London voting IN because that's where all "them elites live" and they're "nothing without EU money"

No you fucking muppets. London need to be in the EU for the financial sector to survive. You know the very same financial sector that props up our entire economy. We are the ones who are nothing without EU money.

If I lose a few brain cells in the process of beating myself around the head, I might understand them better.

Of course we will sort out the financial services mess.

However, this superstate Union frankly appalled me. No one asked for it nor could get off the train.

These outraged young people....(well the 30 per cent of the under 24s)... So sure they are right. So entitled and arrogant. This assumption that older people only voted for themselves and couldn't somehow see the bigger picture.

I'm not old BTW but I have been appalled by the reactions.

"If I lose a few brain cells in the process of beating myself around the head, I might understand them better."

Did you mean to be so rude?

Look up CSFP and CSDP; these things already exist

That's perfectly true, but at least for me it's not about ignoring cooperation completely - what matters is avoiding a possible stampede to further unwanted unification

Perhaps globalisation means people need an amount of national pride at the same time. I don't mean in the racist sense - please - this is a philosophical debate

I believe you, but I doubt you'll avoid the usual, tired accusations of racism, bigotry and all the rest ...

On the subject of unelected commissioners- it's going to be a bit tedious when in our new post Brexit Britain we have to elect all our ambassadors and senior civil servants because democracy, isn't it? It'll take ages!

Yeah the misunderstanding of the EU commission is one of the biggest face palm moments of this.

Undemocratic? Why then are you trying to force through something on a very small majority, it would never have passed in the undemocratic EU.

Ahhh, democracy only matter when you want it to? Hypocrites.

Ahhh, democracy only matter when you want it to? Hypocrites

Ahh democracy doesn't matter when you dont need it too. Hypocrites.

Same can be said for both sides. Can see your still angry this morning small

All this hate must be really draining for some people.

No hate, just facts.

Like I said, 48/52 split wouldn't have been enough to pass a bill at the EU, yet you all complained about how undemocratic it was, yet are now telling others to suck it up.

Sorry democracy doesn't work like that. :)

Oh and democracy always matters, its why I actually understand the way the EU works and so many don't.

But the majority vote by a million people was to leave. It's not to be sniffed at.

And thankfully we can vote and that vote is taken seriously unlike at the EU. Still staggers me why some people are vehemently trying to fight to pass full control over a hand full of men that don't even reside in this country. It's crazy.

kimono As many others have I am sure said the vote was advisory. I don't even think the Tories have a mandate

Biggest change for generations with no mandate - how is that democratic?

Oh and the young are taking to the streets - remember the Poll Tax?

There are I think more than a million begreters now. We are in a wasteland with the economy falling down our ears and some people think holding onto numbers in a vote is the most important thing

'Once more unto the breach dear boy'

Why should we all be cannon fodder for this folly?

"Still staggers me why some people are vehemently trying to fight to pass full control over a hand full of men that don't even reside in this country. It's crazy."

Yes, that would be crazy. Tell me about th people who want to do that?

The economy really isn't falling around our ears, stop bring hysterical.

Um Triple A rating lost, increasing UK national debt interest payments.

FTSE lost 3 Trillion in 3 days and has only stablised since the banks were able to get an emergency £3 billion in liquidity from the BOE.

Short term economic projections all revised downward, firms stalling on investment, banks putting contingency plans into action to move.

Pound fallen to a record low and only slightly recovered, threatening the UK with inflation

We are only in the 4th working day since the vote.

Sorry, but I'm not going to take any of your cod economics seriously.

Agreed Kimonono... Where were all these outraged people before the vote??? I had no remainers knocking on my door or canvassing me on the street, no one really mentioned much if anything on facebook before hand, and now post vote, all leave voters are the ones that did no research, the ageing population that should "hurry up and die" ruining it for the young who barely turned up to vote, (yes I have specifically witnessed that disgusting rhetoric), white tribalists (dont even start me with that special article by trevor phillips), racist, uneducated chavs.

ENOUGH. Listen to yourselves! 😡😡

"Where were all these outraged people before the vote??? I had no remainers knocking on my door or canvassing me on the street, "

Really? Do you not watch television or listen to the radio? No leaflets through your door?

Incidentally, I wasn't outraged before the vote.......why would I have been?

I campaigned for the remain vote.

I discussed at length here.

I'm sorry but each side has people saying nasty things, you lot don't want to be described as all racist, and the remain camp certainly can't all be classed as asking people to hurry up and die.

Again on the uneducated bit. To have a protest vote, in a referendum where every vote matters, and for your protest to be about national government policy and "giving two fingers to the elites". Shows a distinct lack of understanding of what the vote was about.

Oh and there was plenty of information, there were debates on the TV, there were debates all over the internet. It didn't take a lot of effort to find out, you can only blame yourself if you made an uninformed decision.

Because Bettrand, if this was potentially going to be the apocalyptic outcome that everyone is claiming, and remaining is better for everyone, then why didnt more people actively get behind it to prevent this from happening??

And FYI, of course I read the newspapers and dod my research. And no, not a single remain leaflet came through my door.