So the people were right about EU Superstate Military....

[SayWhat123]

"Has Britain avoided a ‘European superstate’? France and Germany ‘draw up plans to morph EU countries into one with control over members’ armies and economies’"

"Plans for 'a closer European Union' have been branded an attempt to create a 'European superstate'.

Germany's foreign minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier and his French counterpart Jean-Marc Ayrault today presented a proposal for closer EU integration based on three key areas - internal and external security, the migrant crisis, and economic cooperation.

But the plans have been described as an 'ultimatum' in Poland, with claims it would mean countries transfer their armies, economic systems and border controls to the EU."

*Apparently Poland is very unhappy with this as they do not want German troops on their soil again and have threatened to negotiate with Russians (whom they were recently asking for protection from).

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3662827/Has-Britain-avoided-European-superstate-France-Germany-draw-plans-morph-EU-countries-one-control-members-armies-economies.html

And when did I mention sticking two fingers to the elite? I have done much research on the matter, and its highly insulting to have it suggested that I and millions of others didnt just because we dont agree.

Um the Prime Minister told you the risks, Osborne told you the risks, The IFS, the BOE, for weeks independent organisation, after independent organisation made statements on the news, in the press, on the radio about the risks

But if you are like most leave voters you stuck your fingers in your ears and yelled "PROJECT FEAR" and left it at that.

You were warned.

I dont honestly know who to believe with regards to the superstate army, but the leaks springing forth are highly disturbing. I will admit, the worry of this highly destabilising propsition did influence my vote (partially), the potential ramifications for the UN and NATO mandate would have been huge. And I dont know about anyone else, but the idea (even if the risk were small) of my kids having been put into a situation where they 'may' have been at risk of conscription to this army sends shivers down my spine. If there is even a grain of truth to it, then I did the right thing (amongst my other reasons)

"And when did I mention sticking two fingers to the elite? I have done much research on the matter, and its highly insulting to have it suggested that I and millions of others didnt just because we dont agree."

I am not saying you didn't do your research. Although your assertion that there was no Remain information available seems to suggest that it just may have been a bit limited.

But it is a bit hard to believe that all 17 million of you looked into it with depth and clarity of vision- considering some people's public statements on the issue.

Ffs... Im not talking about the prime minister or BOE etc, there you go again presuming I have done no research, I am talking about the public outrage as you can well see if you read my post.

As it is also hard Bertrand to Attest that the 16 million on the other sode looked into it with research amd clarity, that argument cuts both ways neatly my friend.

Apologies, small keyboard fast typing...

And just because I didnt get a leaflet, doesnt mean I didnt investigate both sides, off my own back.

What did you expect then? The leading economic institutions, the universities, the car industry, the CBI, BCC, IOD all made their positions clear and the information was freely available and repeatedly linked to here and in other places.

Did you want someone to come and explain directly to you what the concequences were going to be?

My point is, that I dont understand the shock of this predicament, it was always on the cards and I cannot understand why people waited until now to get so enraged (people on the street not politicians), if they had felt so strongly about this matter.

Not discounting those that did, just those who complain so profusely and didnt.

Smallfox, dont be a condescending twerp. I did much research (for the final time)

Ha Ha!

Maybe they listened to the same "non" media you did Bertrand they just like you ignored it all?

I agree Thefuture, there was no passion from the Remain side at all. Just doom and gloom.

Oh right then I've misunderstood.

As I said lots of people just ignored the information that they didn't want to hear.

The comments on the Daily Fail's "what will happen now we have left the EU thread" were priceless.

Its only been a few days, there was bound to be instability and unanswered questions, we will not know the true impact of this brexit for a while. Speculation doesnt help anyone and I will conced that there is speculation on both sides right now.

Look some posters dont even want certain swathes of the population to have a vote...we are all singing from different hymn sheets.

Thefuture I agree, but remember if we had the ref and smoothly sailed into new form - they would still be ranting over something.

Thefuruecouldbebright..

This is true, and I hope to god you are right, but the reality is that this is a big economic and political mess and even if it goes on untill Sept 2 and then we get a firm point on what is going to happen next the economic effects of nearly 3 months of turmoil will take a long time to get over.

Also, on Sept 2nd we won't know what deal we are going to get from the EU so the uncertainty will continue.

I never expected any different TheFuture, of course there are going to be eruptions.

Well, thats true rain! 😉 for what its worth, I understand that non leavers would be dissapointed, it's completely natural and I would have been dissapointed if things were reversed, but I genuinely fail to see what all this hysteria adds after the fact. It only serves to further destabilise the situation and that affects everyone negatively too.

But Out of interest to everyone, and this really is speculation on my part. If it turned out to be true about the EU army and conscription (its unlikely we will ever know for sure of course) hypothetically, bearing in mind it affects our children and grandchildren, (and obviously I know the economic side of brexit does too) how would you feel
About it?

Sorry, rambly post, but I hope you get my drift...

"It only serves to further destabilise the situation and that affects everyone negatively too."

The markets act on advice and analysis from different experts, they don't read mumsnet. No one is hysterical they are pointing out the damage that has been done and dismissing it ass hysteria is belittling the severity of the situation.

The markets react to uncertainty... They (theoretically) dont care which way we go, because there will be gainers as well as losers in the markets whilst the balance shifts IMHO. My dissatisfaction right now lies with the wishy washy leadership from the government, on both sides of the vote. They need to get their shit together fast and stop feeding the problem, otherwise they will have totally failed everybody.

It is extraordinarily annoying that anything not agreeing with "leave" is described as hysterical.

David Cameron gave people the vote. The least he could have done was stick around to makevthe result work (whether it had been leave or remain). He has shirked his responsibilities to the british public IMHO.

Bertrand, its extraordinarily annoying that anything not agreeing with remain is considered stupid and racist.