The second new shiny 2019 thread ...

[MereDintofPandiculation]

... for anyone caring for elderly parents. Come and join us to ask for, or to give, sympathy, ask for advice, or have a good rant.

Went to see DF today. He spent the time criticising every aspect of the care home, from the management ethos to the temperature of the carrots. It seems someone said to him this morning "we're a bit confused this morning, aren't we?" No wonder he was grumpy!

dint does he seem to accept he must stay there ? It must be hard to visit and hear the complaints. How are you doing?

nora that sounds very complicated, is there any paperwork at home you could look at to try and clarify?

dint was he ok up until then, ie reasonably ok with being there?

Just back from the wedding of an Irish cousin. Tons of relatives by various degrees of marriage, but my five first cousins there are some of my favourite people, three of them managed to get to DM's funeral, so it was lovely to see them all on a happy day rather than a sad one. (For the non-Irish: degree of cousinhood appears to be an obsession, whether 1st, twice or umpteen times removed!) Left the DDs there partying hard as had to get home for the dog, they've managed to snag a hotel room so I assume will turn up sometime tomorrow - although DD2 has already messaged work to say she is stuck in London and cant make work at 11am tomorrow!

dint was he ok up until then, ie reasonably ok with being there? I think he's as OK as he can be about being there, it's in the nature of the family to set the world to rights - we'd sit around in our caravan on holiday and redesign it from top to bottom. I'm not sure e's accepted it, but his comments about "I must get out of here" have moderated to "I must get home for a day because I can find things more easily than you can".

nora yes, a good solicitor should be able to make sense of any documents you have, and how the ownerships would be treated in law. There's also a grouping of solicitors specially qualified in dealing with affairs of the elderly - that would be an added bonus.

DS2 last night said re DH and me "... but you two are cool ...". I think he's getting middle-aged before his time. (But I can't help feeling flattered)

We are having to move house, as we need to leave the area for a fresh start for DS. However, the rest of my family aren't taking into account my caring responsibilities towards DM. Just this week I had to be at her chemist for 8.30am on Monday, drop the meds at hers and then get to work. Just not possible if I'm an hour and a half's drive away. DH keeps saying that I need a radical solution. I'm buggered if I have a clue what that means, as frankly what I need is a family who take my reality into consideration. DD in particular has been such a bitch to me. Trying to make an impossible situation work for me in my head has been causing me so much stress so I am going to regroup and insist that the new place is within what I deem to be a reasonable travel time to DM.

nota presume he means ask your DM to go in a home?

Why is DD being a pain?

When pressed on the radical solution, he suggested a web cam so that I could check on DM at a distance. Totally missing the point that what she needs is the support of me being able to run errands, do the garden etc.

DD is 21 and has no idea about the faff that buying and selling a house entails, and seems to think I should have done it all already, preferably moving us to a chi chi little part of London where she can have her own loft as she has little understanding of what my salary makes affordable.

I've been decluttering since 10am and can hardly move. Can someone pass me a gin please?

nota I'm trying to think back to what I did for meds when DF was living at home. Before I took over he was getting them delivered by the pharmacy, but the combination of not hearing the doorbell, being too slow to the door, and, above all, leaving it too late to re-order meant chaos - lots of what you're experiencing, sweet-talking emergency scripts and collecting from pharmacies at inconvenient times. So I took over everything, ordered meds when he still had 2-4 weeks' supply so I could pick up on my way to visit, and I kept a spreadsheet which predicted when they'd run out. Meds are something it's difficult to get carers to do.

What care is your DM getting at the moment? Is it arranged by SS or is it all arranged by you? If it's SS, an hour and a half away is more than enough reason to say "I can't visit, it's your problem" (and just make sure your visits are timed so they don't realise you're visiting as often as you are).

Maybe DH is thinking along the lines of sell her house and get a house with granny annexe - ie bring her closer to you.

Sorry, none of this is helpful - as you say, you need a more supportive family. At the moment you're fighting on all fronts. Just one of "elderly DM" "DS having problems" "move house" is enough to be coping with, let alone all three.

Ah, cross post.

When pressed on the radical solution, he suggested a web cam so that I could check on DM at a distance. Totally missing the point that what she needs is the support of me being able to run errands, do the garden etc. Could you afford a gardener and someone to do errands? Save yourself for the management role, keeping everything running and helping DM make decisions? Don't do jobs because you can do them, do them because no-one else can.

nota sorry to hear things are so tough. Wise words from dint

Echo doing what only you can do. Does she get attendance allowance?
Could that cover a gardener?
Who is supporting you? Sorry your dd isn’t being more understanding.
cockroach all.

nota apologies if everything I say is drivel

Are you in that headspace where you want to stay within a distance that means you can help? If so, I totally get it and your DH and DD should really respect that. DH webcam suggestion is useless. I would get someone for errands and gardening though and save yourself for emergencies or a weekly visit etc. I can’t recall how much you see your mum now?

Adult DD moving with you? Shouldn’t she be helping rather criticising?

I agree, you are fighting on a lot of fronts.

Thank you all for the support and wise words.

I have put a note on my phone to chase meds in 3 weeks - I think it's the only way to keep on top of things. Chemist delivers but as Dint says, she doesn't always hear the doorbell, takes an age getting to the door, and more often than not misses the delivery.

Found a gardener a couple of years ago, all good. Apart from the fact that he has been doing less and less when he turns up, and more often than not I have to chase him up to remind him to come. 'Find new gardener' is another thing on my to do list.

Adult DD should be helping, but really only wants to do the superficial stuff like tell me how to rearrange the furniture. Whereas what I need is someone who will clear the shed with me and take stuff to the dump.

nota shouldn’t you go on strike? DH and DD are not sounding .....realistic.

I met with my financial adviser on Friday and we were able to get a plan sorted for getting the money issue sorted but our main problem is that I don't know if the property they live in is owned as tenants in common, joint tenants or (as my aunt tells me- he has put the property in his son's name). I checked the land registry but the details are not yet there as they have only lived in the place for 6 weeks.

Part of the problem is that mum and his solicitors who did the conveyancing don't accept that my LPA gives me the authority to demand the information about the ownership- they say it's because of GDPR. I think they are just wrong.

nora your mum doesn't want you to have information about the ownership?

What's the situation re capacity? I'm wondering if they ought to just sort it out themselves - I mean if they have capacity, they can argue between themselves about who pays for what. Seems very unfair to involve you.

Chemist delivers but as Dint says, she doesn't always hear the doorbell, takes an age getting to the door, and more often than not misses the delivery. In that case, you might find it actually easier to collect the prescription yourself, but arrange for it to be available on your scheduled visit. You may need to get something on her GP notes like "patient cannot manage home delivery. Daughter collects, but does not live near, and therefore has to arrange collection during scheduled visits, even if this means an "early" repeat of prescription".

nora The solicitors are wrong. LPA entitles professionals to talk to you as if you were the person themselves. You may need to get your LPA solicitor to write to the conveyancing solicitor. However, this may not apply if her name isn't on the property at all - if the property is in her husbands name or her husband's and son's, then GDPR would be relevant. If this is the case, you need a good matrimonial solicitor who also has good knowledge of the law surrounding elder care.

My non-legal brain says she should refuse to pay care, get him to have a financial assessment. The home they are living in would be left out of the assessment, the other property would be included, but they wouldn't be asking her to pay for his care out of any savings she has or her share (if she has one) of the second property.

My personal view is that if he has left her off the property deeds, fairness no longer comes into it - he has broken any moral contract - and she should simply look after her own interests.

@MereDintofPandiculation yes that's the conclusion that my financial adviser and I came to- perhaps the reason they won't tell me is that he has left her off the ownership - I wouldn't put it past him, he's a nasty piece of work.

I'm going to take my LPA proof to the solicitors next time I visit and if they won't give me the details of ownership (although they are both named as clients on the invoice) then I have to conclude that he's put it in his name. In which case he becomes an even meaner, nastier man than I already concluded,

They will both be self funding for care, they have way over the minimum in savings and property but thank god, apart from the property mum's bonds etc are all in her name- however I need to check to see if she has named a beneficiary as they are life assurance linked. My IFA is working on this. Second marriages are a nightmare to administer in cases like this I suspect.

@rosa mums capacity is limited but not yet gone completely so she relies on me to sort out these issues. She just says "I don't know- what do you think?" when I ask her what she wants to do or what she thinks is fair.

He is becoming increasingly penny pinching and odd over money issues. I suspect he's not as cash rich as my mum who was a teacher for 40 years and so has a very healthy monthly pension income- enough almost to pay for top quality residential care when required- with minimal dipping into savings for the shortfall. He was self employed so has little in pensions and relies on income from rented properties and investments, but I doubt it matches mum's monthly income- I don't think he realised this until recently and is now seething.

They jointly own another house which they are trying to sell and mum put 70% of the price in when they bought that place- he denies this but I've got the payment settlement invoice from the solicitor which clearly shows she paid 70%.

What a mess :(

flamingnora so sorry to hear this.

How did you get on with the husband’s children?

I don’t know how joint money is treated in law but if they have separate pots, I can’t see how or why he’d ask for her to pay his care costs. Could he, or his children pay it out of a joint account? It sounds awful but if you think there are risks here, I wonder if any joint accounts should only be funded to a minimum for bills etc.

I feel sick- the brothers Grimm have demanded nearly £70k from my mum (via me) and have been trawling through their dad's bank accounts questioning any payment made to my mum going back years.

I think I need a solicitor- but I'm nervous of spending her money on legal advice.

My heart is pounding and I'm on the verge of tears with these bastards demanding money.

oh nora that is awful. dont respond right now, wait and take advice (and lets face it, a solicitor is not going to charge you/your mum 70k for the advice!)

I just spoke to mum- she is horrified. Says I must see a lawyer ASAP. She wants to talk to her DH but I've said NO until I've had legal advice.

phew, just sit it out as long as you can nora, what a horrible situation for you

flamingnora I would have them communicate

It’s possible that the sons haven’t told their father about this request.

I've just trawled thro mums bank statements, one of the sums questions is £50k into my mums account in 2015, I can see that it was paid out again to his other son with a note on the statement saying CL mortgage, it's the another son who is asking about the money. I'm just going to say you need to ask your father about that payment and let them find out for themselves. I'm just glad I've bottomed that one. It still doesn't solve the immediate request for £70k.
My big worry now is that the nastier of the two sons will use his LPA to get access to my mums bank account (it's in joint names but always been hers and the DH has a similar one with another bank in joint names which it had not occurred to me to seek LPA on). These are not nice people and I feel nearly as vulnerable as my mum.