The second new shiny 2019 thread ...

[MereDintofPandiculation]

... for anyone caring for elderly parents. Come and join us to ask for, or to give, sympathy, ask for advice, or have a good rant.

she was a bit "what's wrong with candles in a power cut" and I just muttered something about the 21st century!! I'm with your mum. When we have a powercut, I light a few candles, and get out the big oil lamp which used to be my mother's main source of light when she was growing up in a cottage without electricity or running water.

monkey in that case it's even more important you put yourself first, and avail yourself of all possible help wherever you can find it.

Mere but are you 80 with atrial fibriliation and a lot of associated wobbliness, plus balance issues? I'm guessing no.....

Yolo your mother sounds like my kind of woman. I have 3 in my small flat!

I notice this week is Carers' Week

someone on Twitter pointed out, quite rightly, that a lot of it is about networking and it's useless for anyone who can't get away because they are a carer!

Thinking in terms of elder care, what do we need? Was social care better before? How do we lobby for better pay for carers, given the generally insane way our economies run?

Or are we just screaming into a void?!

I spend half a day with mum today, had to take her for an important appointment or we'd not have ventured out in this weather. It's exhausting. I don't know how carers do this.

Bizarre dream last night - both my parents had come back to life, or never really been dead (that Bobby Ewing in the shower moment) and were absolutely furious that we'd sold the house!!

Still waiting for response re my complaint to the hospital.

yolo weird!

have you got probate yet, if you don't mind me asking. I heard that there were huge delays to it at the moment. It looks like government cuts in disguise - sorry to be political - but much vaunted new computer system, lots of redundancies, staff remaining struggling to cope. I read in a business journal and it sounded like a big faff.

I get very confused about house sales and probate, there's one on my street that's been sold but is waiting for probate, does that mean they have actually exchanged?

I sometimes think we should delicately ask for mum for funds to put aside for funeral. One of my friends has been unable to sell the parental home a long time after their passing and has to pay council tax on it now I think.

hi rosa we finally got the more complex form agreed by HMRC, now we wait for probate - and mum's solictor (who is a fucking weasel) said exactly the same as you have. The good news is that our buyers are now renting the house so when we finally get probate - weaselface says 7-8 weeks - we can exchange and complete on same day. We are so lucky to be in this situation, and they absolutely love the house and have already started replacing carpets etc (much needed).

re funeral costs, ours are still waiting to be paid as bill is with solicitor. Ofc we dont get her ashes til they get paid...! OTH I dont know what to do with them anyway, DB has some bizarre idea of taking them to Ireland but I dont want much truck with that - he can if he wants to. They just seem a bit irrelevant to me. Having said that, I finally disposed of a cat's and a hamster's ashes which had been in a kitchen cupboard for about 10 years with a casual 'goodbye' as they went into the bin!

Hello to all. After a decade of elderly parents, you can guess why my user name, I felt quite burnt out so ducked of this thread, despite the wonderful support I have had in the past.

I came back really to rant about license fees, though spot several familiar names so wanted to say hi.

DM turned 90. She is fit as a horse, albeit with no memory. She may well outlive me.

Very largely due to a fantastic carer, she is still in very sheltered housing. Which means she will need to pay for her TV licence. It also means that she saves the state a lot of money.

She is financially ok, but many of her neighbours clearly have to watch every penny, ducking out of the optional meals or entertainment in order to save a few pennies.

I reckon my mothers monthly outgoings are around £2,800 as she needs quite a lot of propping up. I assume her position is not unusual as age brings increasing disability. She is very independent so her sheltered housing provides her with a far better quality of life than she would in a home. Not that many, even middle class, elderly will have that sort of income. And many, like my mother who could well live another decade, will be seeing their savings diminish rapidly.

I really worry for her neighbours, and for those other elderly people, clinging on to their independence who have no financial slack. TV is a godsend for a 90 year old. Yet at £156, it could easily mean a choice between heating, food or the loneliness that not having a TV would bring.

A lot is said about affluent pensioners, but far less about those who are just about managing, as their hard earned pensions and savings are eaten up by the cost of self-funding their increasing care needs. Nor about people like us who contribute unpaid time and energy to helping them keep it all together.

My guess is that the £156 might be the final straw for many. There are only so many cut backs you can make. More deaths through cutting back on essentials, more having to move to care homes, or a real loss of quality of life. Isnt there supposed to be a policy of helping people stay in their homes for as long as possible?

The cost of Gary Lineker's salary will be very high indeed.

Rant over...cockroach to all.

Yolo oh 8 weeks isn't too bad.

I understand the thing about the ashes and what to do with them.

mum put a lot of thought into it but I just thought, dad was gone IYSWIM.

mum paid dad's funeral costs upfront as it seemed less hassle than linking up with the solicitor - I don't really remember it tbh but couldn't funeral directors be waiting for literally yonks if they are waiting on the estate?

I don't want to raise it with mum really but it has occurred to me that things will be different when she is gone - we would have to do things like clear the house, probably need a skip. I had to go round the house repairing some of her ancient chairs - I was really alarmed that she has her wobbly friends round and sitting on those chairs!! I swear some things like bookcases will just collapse if someone attempts to move them.

She might go in a retirement flat next year but I think it will be a shock to her to lose the space. She's still thinking it over. Also I don't think she realises how noisy a block of flats will be in comparison to a house.

needmoresleep cross post

yes, the licence fee thing is awful IMHO.

one of mum's friends was saying she is worried that bus passes will be next.

as for "policy" - I feel as if there is no policy for helping the elderly! I feel like there's no sensible social care in place at all.

also there's no joined up thinking or even database linking in systems. My late father had a friend 15 years older. She ended up in hospital many times before ending up in a care home. She had no relatives and he was her closest friend. She didn't sort PofA till she went into the home, unfortunately.

so every single time he went to see in her hospital, we ended up with a rigmarole of "is he family, is he allowed to see her" etc. I'm sure some of this was about skin colour, but it seems pretty basic that an elderly person - or maybe anyone? - who is known to the district nurse or whatever, should be able to have a named person who can visit them in hospital without getting a million suspicious questions every time.

Hello all-too much to comment on, what with probate, tv licences, torches etc and cats ashes.....
Just want to say hi and extend good wishes to all.
yolo so good your mums house has lovely new residents.
dint how is your dad doing?
need lovely to see you!
And a rousing Cockroach all

Mere but are you 80 with atrial fibrillation and a lot of associated wobbliness, plus balance issues? I'm guessing no..... So it's not about the 21st century, but more about her state of health - though I can see "it is the 21st century" is a much kinder thing to say than "candles?! At your age?! and in your state of health?!"

bus passes will be next That's especially hard because older people tend to make short trips which are disproportionately expensive. And many are worried about money so even if, in theory, they could afford the bus fare, they will choose not to make the trip, thus increasing their social isolation and rate of decline.

dint how is your dad doing? Physically, well. And he's stopped stocking up with biscuits. He's beginning to take an interest in the home, giving advice to the handyman, complaining about waste, being interested that one of the carers owns a horse - that's all positive (except perhaps if you're the handyman). He's beginning to find ways to assert his authority and autonomy. And he's very absorbed in a book of historical photos that the manager has lent him - he's not even native to the area! Mentally he sounds coherent and knowledgeable most of the time, though probably up to 50% of the time what he's telling you conflicts with evidence from elsewhere. So on the whole, pretty good for his age, and I'm realising just how much the home are doing for him that I couldn't manage to do.

She might go in a retirement flat next year but I think it will be a shock to her to lose the space. People always say you should make the move before you need to, rather than end up doing it as a result of a crisis. But it is a lot to lose, and one advantage of waiting for the crisis is that you are more convinced the move is necessary. I'm sure my Dad is coping with the nursing home better because he has demonstrated to himself that he can't maintain his health at home with a care package; and even his downsizing and move to be near us was eased by his experience of being delirious with pneumonia and not being able to call for help.

sandwich waving hello to you

Mere I'm glad your dad is doing well

re the moving - mum could have a stairlift. If worst came to worst we could arrange bedroom downstairs, there is a loo, but not a full bathroom.

so it's one of those things that makes her dither. It's impossible to tell what will happen. She was absolutely knackered yesterday - we had to go to some stuff in really shit weather for her - but today she is fine, she's done lots of cooking etc.

I agree it's better to move before the crisis but there's always the question of - what if the crisis never happens and you've moved for no reason?

Her best mate is 83 and still in her house. That lady has actually had a minor procedure in hospital today and is okay, though someone is staying the night with her tonight. Mum is taking food tomorrow and I'm half expecting a text from the best mate saying "Of course I don't need anything, do you think I'm an old woman or something". She says that to me a lot

Her best mate is 83 and still in her house. At 83 my dad moved 150 miles to be in his own house nearer us, then had at least 10 years independent living taking a full part in civic community life. He'd have been utterly miserable being hustled into a care home or even into a retirement apartment.

Her best mate is 83 and still in her house. At 83 my dad moved 150 miles to be in his own house nearer us, then had at least 10 years independent living taking a full part in civic community life. He'd have been utterly miserable being hustled into a care home or even into a retirement apartment.

Mere I hear you. I am actually hoping mum will change her mind tbh. With a stairlift or potential to sleep downstairs, I can't see why she shouldn't stay really.

also there's the faff of moving. Stupid example - I need to buy a new bed, my ancient one is ancient. Just getting it delivered and the old one removed is a bigger faff than I imagined - side note, if anyone has any companies to recommend, who don't expect me to bag up the mattress and dismantle the bed frame myself, that would be good!

so yes, would be very hard for mum to actually move. I think she hasn't factored that in. She's not planning on deciding anything till spring. I know the fact that the house is cold is a problem for her but she also can't face getting work done to improve insulation.

Mere something else struck me about food

my mum is underweight. She eats mostly very healthy food and has controlled portions all her life.

when we eat out, she eats much more and really enjoys it. I think she thinks she still must eat healthily at 80. I'm not criticising it, just thinking if I got to 80 I would want to eat whatever the hell I liked!

Rosa If you go the stairlift route, consider a reconditioned one. The average usage of a stairlift is a couple of years (Ours lasted 3 months before Dad went into a nursing home! - which I'm easy with because it cost approximately the same as 1 month in a nursing home, so it saved 2 months in nursing home fees).

Yes - food. I persuaded my Dad that eating low fat margarine wasn't necessary at his age, and was backed up by a nutritionist referral by his GP. Appetite tends to decrease with age (I think someone on here said the very elderly eat by the clock not according to hunger) so it becomes increasingly important that food is enjoyable. I think it's also easier to eat in company.

Thinking in terms of elder care, what do we need? Was social care better before? Yes, I presume it was - I was given a cleaner for 6 weeks after I had a Caesarian, can't imagine that happening nowadays! But isn't the main thing that we used to die of heart conditions etc after a relatively short period of incapacity, but now they're good at keeping our bodies running, so we end up with years of dementia?

Mere thanks. Mum will only have new, which is fine, it's her money.

re food, yes, sorry, I posted half a statement there! Seeing her appetite when out made me think that she could enjoy her food a lot more but she's still sticking to very rigid rules that kept her slim in her 40s.

your description of the food your dad is getting made me think that if someone was putting that food in front of her, she'd really enjoy it.

yes to the fact that we used to die quite fast after heart things were diagnosed. I suppose when there were fewer 80+ folk needing care, social care would have been a lot better?

Evening all - or should that be morning? DH surgery tomorrow, we leave at 6.30am and I suspect I wont be sleeping much if at all tonight... luckily had a nap on the sofa before picking DD1 up from work at 10.45 but now I am wide awake!

Re food, my mum was like a little bird for the last couple of years of her life, she couldnt eat a proper meal if she tried. Lots and lots of little snacks seemed to keep her going, and if we had a roast at home (and she hadnt been here) I would take her round a very small plate - literally a sliver of meat, a couple of carrots, one potato etc which she liked as a treat. When I was cooking for her at her house, it would be one egg scrambled, and one piece of toast - all she could manage.

Social care - people died earlier, fewer women were working/had their own children younger, so perhaps less of the (shit) sandwich generation?

yolo the biggest of hugs and every good wish for you and dh today.🌺🌺🌺🌺

yolo hope it all goes well today.

re the food - tbh I'm not bothered about how much or how little mum eats. Her friends are on at us all the time though, about how underweight she is.

my sister was walking over there, someone tooted their horn at her, and it was a neighbour stopping to ask if mum is eating properly.

I'm quite tired of it. I realise these people mean well but what are we meant to do about it! Sorry, I'm repeating myself but is it evil that I am not bothered?

mum has herself pointed out that her sister - in another country - apparently lost a shit ton of weight in her early 70s and apparently family over there were fuss galore as well. Like mum, all medical tests done, nothing wrong.

my dad actually decided to be skinny in his early 70s because for various reasons, his exercise was extremely limited. No breakfast, a small salad with a bit of protein for lunch, a small size of mixed stuff for dinner.

I honestly wonder if no one commented on that partly because he was a man? Also he was younger so seemed less fragile? And wasn't a widower?

sometimes I think it's partly the world making me feel I am responsible for my mum. It gets on my nerves.

yolo Best wishes for today

I suppose when there were fewer 80+ folk needing care, social care would have been a lot better? I think so. I think also that our elders are suffering from the "baby-boomer bashing" climate today. Although improvements in social care are important for anyone over about 50 - ie those who need it for themselves or to provide some relief from caring for elders - younger people are struggling, and don't place a high priority on channeling more help to those that they see as perfectly able to pay for any care that they need. And I know myself how much my sympathy and understanding of the problems of old age has changed as my father has got older - I'm much more tolerant of things like not listening to me because it's such a relief to him to have someone to talk to.

Mere I think politicians don't care about it and just think it's the job of adult children to do it.

Good to hear you got more tolerant. I am feeling less tolerant, but this does depend on a lot of things.

This morning I was wondering about getting a cleaner for me! I only work part time but I wast thinking it might save another boring job because dealing with an oldie feels like a constant list of boring and unfulfilling jobs. That sounds awful doesn't it.

then again, in a small flat, it's mad really.