Probably going down in flames...

[Ophelialovescats]

I am saying something here that I cannot say in real life , so ,here goes....I am looking forward to my elderly mother's death...
OMG ! I am evil !

@FuckKnuckle

oh I want to give you an unMumsnetty hug, that must have been so difficult to say that to her.

"Why do they do it?"

I don't know. I honestly don't really remember half the stuff she drags up.

Is it that they are so unhappy, all they can do is spread it around? I'm trying to feel compassion but that is diminishing rapidly.

the reason she was talking about a TV show was that she thought it was common ground as I'd watched it. but she did that thing of "they should have not made that programme, why did they make it, no one is interested it" - yes, she said that about a programme that she chose to watch and I'm not good at just saying "mmm" so I said
"well, you chose to watch it, I chose to watch it....I think it got good ratings..."

and she was quite enraged.

often on MN people will ask "is there maybe a dementia issue?"

but no, I'm quite sure there isn't.

I'm not going to phone again, but when she does she will say "well I don't why I'm phoning because apparently we can't even talk about television anymore..."

I feel like working life is a constant acting job and listening to people talk shit. having to do in personal life as well is just way too much!

sorry, that was long.

"Why do they do it?"

I've wondered about them being a traumatised generation. My DF was brought up by Victorians (older parents), DMs Dad was abusive, both were born just before WW2.

DM definitely recreates a chaotic environment around her when she is stressed. It's like ripples, she can't bear for anyone else to be feeling differently from her so she pokes and prods until you are wound up too. It's a way of controlling her environment I think.

@picklemepopcorn

that's a really interesting point.

both my parents grew up in enormous families with squillions of siblings, thought it was normal for parents to shout etc over the smallest of things.

Also I think they are unsettled because much as they know dad and I don't like each other, they are a bit "but we are your PARENTS" as if it gives them an automatic right to be loved.

I wouldn't wish illness on anyone but I do think dad is being very rude in how he treats the medical team who wanted to treat his condition last year and he wouldn't let them.

Also, I could be imagining this but I feel he has finally - unsurprisingly - turned out to be a blustering coward and perhaps they pick up on that. I mentioned upthread that he used to rant about "old people bed blocking" "old people are a drain on the NHS" etc and I thought it was damn rude. Alongside that, he used to be boastful about being unafraid of death. (I'm not afraid of death either but I don't feel the need to bang on at my family about it )

and after all this, it turns out he panics - at the first sign of a heart problem - arrythmia, for goodness' sake, which I had in my 20s - and he's all "oh it's TERRIBLE, you have no idea what it's like, it must be treated NOW". He was honestly surprised when mum reminded him i was 3 weeks in hospital with it in my 20s. Of course i know what it's like! I didn't create noise and drama about it either.

and the treatment he avoided last year - knowing fully the condition would get worse - is "uncomfortable" so he must be treated right now and it's not fair that there's a waiting list for treatment.

perhaps it was normal in their households to be all crazy and irrational and then have a big row with someone and then calm down. But that sort of thing drives me mad.

I think I'm going to start saying "What do you want?" when they call.

A quick change of subject works well if you are able to get a word in edgeways. I keep a mental list of things I can ask about. When she starts on a rant, when if she pauses for breath I say 'oh I've been meaning to ask, how did xyz go in the end?' It generally distracts her enough.

@picklemepopcorn

It used to, I agree. But they have no hobbies, no interests, and love wallowing. So there's nothing to ask about and nothing to tell them because they disapprove of us having fun.

and a lot of our lives are quite now, focusing on early retirement and maxing out savings, which they totally don't approve of either - because people who retire early are clearly bad people in their book.

sorry, not trying to knock down your suggestions, it's just we've hit the wall. I think there's nothing I can do but wait for said wall to crumble in whatever form it does.

I noticed I was feeling a bit odd yesterday and the parents thing is very much on my mind; I feel quite despairing about it all and want to run far away

I took my BP on the home machine. It's normally a bit low. It's gone up more than 20 points on the upper figure. the lower figure and pulse rate are normal.

DP thinks I should make a doc appointment because it's quite a rise

but the only thing I can think is that, seriously, it's the stress of this situation.

I think my DH is feeling similar to you OP, and some other pp.

His father is a complete bully and now that MIL is ill he’s getting much worse.

You are not evil at all. I haven’t read the entire thread yet, but it’s clear that you aren’t in the Evil camp.

Lighthouse, go to GP. Stress or not stress, it gives you something to use as an excuse! The GP says I have to avoid getting worried about anything.. so I won't see you this month

@AdoraBell
Thank you, sorry hear your DH has same.

@picklmepopcorn I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety years ago, they mostly just think it makes me weak and a weirdo.

@AdoraBell, thankyou. I feel for your DH - please make sure he knows he's not alone.

@Lighthouse, I actually agree with Pickle - I think you should visit your GP and see what he says about your blood pressure. It's bad enough having to deal with the stress that your parents are putting you through - you don't want it to make you physically ill as well. You have a life that you are entitled to live and enjoy.

I've had an eventful week. Mother is very ill - we saw her yesterday, and she sounds terrible. The house is finally being sold, but DB has gone on holiday, so we have had to sort it all - we live hours away. When he left he told us that if she dies while he's away (which is a real possibility now) he doesn't want to be told until he gets back. And just to top it all off, I was supposed to be looking after a pet of his while he's away. It was in such a terrible state I had to take it to the vet who said there was nothing they could do. It's been euthanased. I haven't told him yet.

Thing is, he's dumped all this in our laps (we're pretty sure he's mentally unwell, but not sure how to approach things without making him worse), which has meant we've had to make some pretty major decisions on our owns. And I'm now terrified of his return because we're bound to have got some things wrong, and I'm supposed to be picking him up.

I wish this would all just go away.

Knuckle, that sounds so stressful

are you in touch with your brother because of your mum? Would you go NC later on? I'm just surprised to hear you have been pet sitting for him. Was the pet ill because he had been neglecting them?

My sis is kind of the same. She and her family are away every five minute and want to be out of touch. I did ask her to keep in touch last time and she did but it remains to be seen whether they'd come back from a holiday.

it's a bit weird because while I understand while she is NC, I'd want her to come back to help me.

re doc, blood pressure has gone back to normal and I have to see doc at regular intervals about other things so I'll wait for that next appointment.

My sister has always been clear that she doesn't want to know while she is away. And it doesn't stop her going away multiple times a year.

the part about loving her is just something I'm saying because I feel I ought to. I don't love her. I feel obligated to her and deep inside me that small child is still trying to find the right thing to say or do to win her approval, but I don't love her

I could have written that exact paragraph too @FuckKnuckle So many of us waited for that approval and love which never came. I'm so sorry it happened to you, and others on this thread

Fortunately for me, an older and wiser friend had a very similar relationship with her mother and she told me it was OK not to love my Mum. She had felt immense relief at her Mother's death, and seeing that somehow that gave me the freedom to be able to feel what I feel if that makes any sense?

I'm also so sorry for those of you whose parents have been stolen by illnesses such as dementia, for whom death will come as a relief for very different reasons. for you too.

@Saidtheshark, It's horrible, isn't it? Your friend was very wise, and I'm feeling a similar sense of support and validation from this thread. Thankyou all.

@Lighthouse, I'm glad your blood pressure is behaving! I used to have a good relationship with DB, but that was ages ago - I don't know when things changed. But now, you're right, the only contact I have with him is when he wants something. I arranged care for the pet last year, and he just kind of assumed it would be the same this year; the pet hadn't been in great condition then, but not bad enough to raise concerns. But yes, it was entirely due to neglect...poor little sod. If he'd only asked for help I would have taken the pet on, but by the time I saw it it was too far gone. The rest of the stuff is irritating, frustrating...but just stuff. But to have allowed that to happen to a living creature- I am so angry!

And yes, once this is all over, I would cheerfully go NC with him. Not that it would make that much difference anyway.

Knuckle, why won't it make a difference?

My dad is back in hospital. He's been such a pain today even mum said she might not visit tomorrow. I bet she will though.

Is it possible for sheer force of ego to keep someone alive?!

Thank you for the and support. Sitting here despairing of what to do. Mum spent 4 weeks in hospital, we agreed to DNR and she was very vocal that she didn’t want to live. She got a funded place in a nursing home, that she agreed to. We were strongly advised that caring for her at home would be very difficult. My brother doesn’t have a partner and has shouldered her day-to-day care, I live about an hour away, and although I was spending 3+ days helping, emergencies couldn’t be responded to immediately.
From being apparently only having a few weeks left she has made a partial recovery but is totally unable to even get out of bed without a hoist.
She is very unhappy in the home, I am met with a barrage of complaints every time I visit, but to be fair all she did before was complain about my brother and his lack of care.
She has a small amount of savings but they wouldn’t last very long given the amount of support she needs. Short of a lottery win this weekend to fund 24 hour 1-2-1 nursing care (with English nurses! Her racism not mine)
What do I do?

@ParoxetineQueen

Oh I do feel for you. You know how this works is that they go in a home and recover quite a lot, because daily strains are removed.

My feeling is that is if she needs a hoist to get out of bed, she needs to stay in the home.

She's going to make the same comments about any home I guess? The other thing is if you could get funding for 1:1 at home, she will then make demands of everyone around her?

I am so sorry you are all going through this.

Lighthouse, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head, pain is under control, the oxygen has helped her breathlessness and she’s sleeping well with the pain meds. She feels better, albeit totally immobile so has the energy to find fault. If she was to go home she would be equally critical of our efforts as she was before she went into hospital

Oh I hadn't even thought about oxygen

They have moved my dad to a different hospital, I wonder if he will get oxygen

I will go tomorrow

I sort of alternate between feeling nauseous and feeling like a terrible person

He seems to have been moved because no one can find answers so now going to what is in theory a bigger better hospital but I honestly can't tell if he's been made bed because he made such a fuss that the first hospital wasn't doing enough

The GP had to battle to get him a hospital place at all because a lot of what he's showing is old age and heart problems

I can only guess but I reckon tomorrow he'll be discharged and we will have to get a carer at home

Mum was with him today and she said he was upset by something I said. It's because I can't fake it any more. As the song says, all I want is to stop pretending. There is just no end in sight.

Moved, not made bed!

If you are evil OP, then so am I. My mum died a few weeks ago. The last 6 months have been some of the hardest I have had to live through, seeing her go from relative idependence to needing 24 hour care. I wish she hadn’t had to go through that. I wish I hadn’t. They say it is a nightmare. It isn’t. It was like I’d died and gone to hell. You know you will wake up from a nigthmare. This goes on and on, it’s relentless. She was very unhappy during this time, saying she was a burden, they’d put her down if she was an animal etc – heartbreaking to listen to you can only stay cheerful and postiive for so long. I didn’t cope well, I turned into a dithery jelly – had to keep reminding myself that not so long ago I’d been a competent adult witha successful career. Nothing prepares you for this. My father died suddenly.
I did love my mother but it is so hard when someone no longer wants to live. She was difficult. I spent the last 60 years trying to please her and I could never get it right. But I did love her and I know she loved me. Now she has gone I do feel relieved, because it is what she wanted and she is no longer suffering. I have plenty to feel guilty about, but I don’t. I did everyting I could. I spent as much time with her as I could and I am so grateful for the time with her before she became ill. I know she wanted me to come and live with her, but I couldn’t have done it . The physical stuff I just got on with, but it felt inappropriate – she didn’t seem to mind. I’m not squeamish, I’m a farmer’s wife, used to mucking out pigs and so on. The emotional stuff was harder, it wouldn’t have done either of us any good. Then there was the terrible sense of isolation. I’m an only child and there is no other family, and I live at the other end of the country. Every time I thought I’d sorted things out something else would go wrong. You can’t control other peorle’s behaviour. Dealing with doctors, district nurses, carers, care homes, sociial workers from a distance is hard. Ask the doctor come out to deal with such and such, no, that is the district nurse’s job. Phone district nurse, they won’t do anything a unless the doctor tells them to, and so it goes on . Then all the hospital visits. As soon as the family is involved any help mysteriously disappears.
So what could have made things better. They said the NHS would care for you from cradle to grave. Seems to me it’s unfairly weighted to the cradle end. Try getting a taxi around 3 oclock during the week – none to be had because they are all busy ferrying little Snowflakes home from school. You don’t have to pay for schooling, why should you have to pay for care at the end of your life. It would help if the government stopped foreign aid and spent it on their own people, after all they did go through a world war. But they are no longer economically active so why bother. They could pay carers and care home workers decent wages so they didn’t get the dregs, the sadists and those whose English is not so good. Make it a worthwhile job. But that’s not gong to happen. God help us when our turn comes.

I'm sad that my paragraph about not loving my mother has resonated with so many people, but I also find it immensely reassuring.

@Lighthouse, I understand about the alternating between feeling like a terrible person and feeling nauseous. All I will say is, if they do try and send him home, get Occupational Therapy involved to assess him and see if he needs help at home, don't offer to help out, and don't let your Mum say she'll do whatever needs doing. The help is out there, but in my experience if you give them the slightest whiff of being prepared to take it on, they'll pounce on it, and that's not fair or sustainable.

I still have to give myself a good talking to to unpick whether I should visit Mum because I want to or because I feel I ought to - I visited yesterday, as a matter of fact. She greeted me by asking if DB was with me and asked me about four times in the course of my visit when he was due back. This is par for the course, though - a couple of years ago when she was still at home with carers I had to spend three weeks there while DB went away on holiday. I thought I did ok, and every day she would tell me to go out for a while (I did some days); when DB came back she had a good old moan about how I kept going out and I didn't look after her properly...

Anyway, I'm picking DB up from the airport in a couple of days. He still doesn't know about his pet because he hasn't been in touch, and as he didn't want to know if anything happened to Mum I guessed he wouldn't want to hear about that either.

As for going NC with him not making much difference; I hardly hear from him now unless he wants something, so it'll pretty much be business as usual.

Chin up, everyone. This too shall end.

@nononny

I'm sorry your experience was so awful. There certainly isn't any money for social care or proper pay for carers, I agree.

Knuckle, i wonder if some people are just fitted with a "be ridiculous" gene.

I saw him today and we had a conversation about care. He said it's up to us, he didn't express a preference for being in his own home, but having care at home will be cheaper.

Mum thinks he's going to get better so she's not really talking about it.

We've now shared the news with a couple of neighbours. My parents have these delightful neighbours, some in their 30s, who are really honestly happy to help and very full of energy. Dad has always refused any help because he says "we can't return the favour" but I don't think of it like that.

In our 20s and 30s we helped out elderly neighbors. They're long gone but we still remember them fondly and it was no bother at all to just pick up groceries or put bins out so not even really helping, just a tiny task.

Anyway, hopefully now we've told them, mum might actually accept those offers of help.

Really struggling
BP gone back up