Probably going down in flames...

[Ophelialovescats]

I am saying something here that I cannot say in real life , so ,here goes....I am looking forward to my elderly mother's death...
OMG ! I am evil !

[LighthouseSouth]

Across, my understanding is that you have to report an incident.

This was that a neighbour asked her - as a favour - to move her car, she said yes without worry, but panicked and couldn't. Pretty much the whole street saw, (long story) but I'm not sure if a one off thing like this will count.

As I type this I'm not sure if I'm being fair myself actually. But I hope the incident will make her think. She's certainly very embarrassed.

[AcrossthePond55]

Oh, then I guess it’s different there. Do you feel she’s actually unsafe to drive or just a nervous driver.

We were lucky with our mum. She voluntarily curtailed her driving after scaring herself once; no motorways, no after dark, only to very familiar places all very local. But eventually we had to tell her it was time to stop. Luckily she agreed, although as dementia started getting hold of her there were times she made remarks about us wanting to steal her car and my brother had to hide her keys.

I think stopping driving represents such a huge loss of independence that it’s really difficult for them to give it up even if they know deep inside it’s time. Mum used to say how hard it was to have to ask one of us to drive her around. We didn’t mind in the least, small price to pay to not have her on the road.

[LighthouseSouth]

She's nervous and has always been a poor driver, but the reason I suggested she stopped is that her mental state is such, she suddenly goes blank.

If you asked her doctor, they would probably say she's fine to drive. But I've noticed her suddenly going blank and thought, what if that happens on the road? i think that's what happened yesterday, she got half way through moving the car, then didn't know what to do next.

tbh if she retook her test on a good day it would be fine. You can never tell when this sudden period of "blank" will happen.

she only drives in an area in the local streets, so only residential roads and the High Street, where the supermarket and GP are located. She would be unlikely to be above 20mph, no journey longer than 5 mins.

[AcrossthePond55]

That's how my mum scared herself! She was driving to the eye doctor, been there a million times, and suddenly she didn't know how to get there! She pulled over and sat for a minute and it all came back, but it scared her enough to make her curtail her driving to local places, etc. We asked her to stop after a severe attack of vertigo AND we found out that she'd let some random in her car because 'they me asked for directions so I thought it would be easier if I just took them myself'.

If your mum is having blank spells, do you think she may be having TIAs? Of course, the problem with those is that they don't show up on tests. Does she realize she's having them and would she tell her GP? If so, maybe if you speak to the office and let them know your concerns ahead of time, the GP would be willing to suggest she stop driving. And perhaps there's a way for a GP to let the relevant agency know a person shouldn't be driving anymore. I know that here if you report repeated seizures or repeated loss of consciousness a doctor will 'turn you in'.

The driving issue is so hard because it doesn't involve just them, does it? It involves other drivers and pedestrians.

[LighthouseSouth]

@AcrossthePond55

no, I probably didn't explain very well. A TIA has some effect later doesn't it...this is more like before I took meds for depression/anxiety and if I popped to the shop for bread, I'd get there and think "why I am here?" And sometimes I would have to go home because I couldn't remember that one thing.

What she did yesterday, she immediately realised she couldn't move the car - there was a gap of a few seconds between her starting to do it and then realising she'd had a brain blank. She said to the neighbour immediately "I don't know how to do this, what's happening". Dad and I were in the house and from our perspective it was about 30 seconds between her going outside, then coming back in to say "WTF" - except mum doesn't swear, lol.

she does also have very bad insomnia, as do I. I have said to her before, I don't consider myself safe to drive (no problem as I live in London) but she disagrees, she thinks I'd be fine if I did it again.

I am inclined to be massively overcautious just as you say - this affects other people.

the other reason I said it is because she seems to need to concentrate super hard when she drives now, but there are often posts on here from people who are told they are just lacking in confidence if they have to do that. It's an awkward one but I will ask again. Dad is usually with her so he will also say something if he thinks she's not okay to drive.

[LighthouseSouth]

I know nobody's posted here for ages but I hope someone will hear my cry....

just to say after a peaceful ish 3 weeks, dad has another round of hospital stuff because he's feeling ill again and I have the rage

if he didn't constantly push to extend his life at every possible opportunity .....argh. my mum actually told me something quite telling....one doctor appointment I didn't attend, the doctor said something to dad about trying to live his extra years with grace and dignity.

I have a lot of experience of doctors myself and I don't think anyone would say that unless they knew the patient in question was not a nice person!! That doctor knows dad quite well now and probably feels pushed to his limit with him too.

we were out in the countryside yesterday and once again I found myself thinking "suppose we don't move for another 20 years because of all this?" I just don't know any more. Perhaps it's time to say, look, if you keep taking all the treatments available to avoid dying at 80, you can take the consequences and we will just go and live our lives. I hate London so much.

[VanillaSugar]

Oh gosh

[VanillaSugar]

@LighthouseSouth Deep breath. I won't say it will be alright because it won't. Oh dear. I can give you sympathy and and a good old shoulder, but that's about it.

My own DM has also had a run in with the NHS and wants to sue them. Have I already mentioned this? It happened at the same time that a lovely lady I know died (with grace and dignity) and I want to shout at my DM " At least you're BLOODY ALIVE "

How does your DM feel about you moving g?

[LighthouseSouth]

@VanillaSugar

thank you so much for your reply. Do you think your mum will sue?

My DM would be very upset if we moved. She has said not to worry about it but we are very close. For me another factor is that because her memory is going, sometimes she'll say "I haven't spoken to you for ages" when it was yesterday, and also we will fix a time to call and she forgets it, then gets upset if she calls and we aren't here.

so I think if she has several years left, it won't be long before she can't compute if she saw me yesterday or three months ago, if you see what I mean.

with my dad, it's kind of ironic because he spent years ranting about what he perceived as elderly people draining the NHS.

he has said some quite vicious things about elderly people and that's in spite of him having things like statins from the age of 50 something.

In general I think societal attitudes to long life are quite odd.....preventative everything and a sense that prolonging life is vitally important, even when quality of life is declining. I so miss the days I was little and people thought "three score and ten" was a good life. It is certainly at least ten years more than what I'd want!

[LighthouseSouth]

sorry I know I keep venting

but latest is that something dad refused treatment for last year, he now wants treatment because "it will get worse". Well of course it will - they told you that last year!!!

so it looks like he is going to be in two sets of treatment in two different hospitals, when we could have had it handled last year

this means several sets of hospital appointments in one go and they live a 3 hour round trip from me in the first place! Also I told him last year, it was very quiet at work and it would be easy for me to take time off at the original time of diagnosis!

I'm afraid I lost it somewhat today and said to my mum "you know what, he causes the chaos, he can deal with the results without me running round after him".

she'll never stop running round around after him because she thinks the sun shines out of his arse. but I don't think I can make it my problem any more. The thing is, if she doesn't feel well enough to go, he can go alone - he just likes someone to moan at.

[ParoxetineQueen]

Back here! In the words of the song I think Mum is tired of living but scared of dying. She fell 4 weeks ago, taken to hospital by well-meaning (arse covering) paramedics. A week later my brother and I made the decision DNR, she begged to be allowed to die, we explained over and over that she wasn’t receiving or going to receive anything other than palliative care then cried when the immensely kind Macmillan nurses suggested a hospice bed. Now we are in limbo, half the time she talks about getting better the rest of the time says why does she have to live. She doesn’t want anyone but me, my brother and my grown up children to visit. Don’t know why I’m posting this but I know some of you will understand how draining this is.

[VanillaSugar]

Oh bless, to you both.

I don't think my mother will sue. She's all talk.

@LighthouseSouth You're in between a rock and a hard place here

I also agree that the medical profession is geared up to keeping people alive when perhaps it's time for them to go. My step father died of lung cancer and towards the end it was grim. A dog would have had a more merciful end, and I don't say this lightly.

[VanillaSugar]

 @ParoxetineQueen

[LighthouseSouth]

Hi Vanilla and Paroxetine

Sorry you are both having such a hard time too

We have a friend whose mother seems to have had DNR overridden....she told the doctors but never wrote it down. Then when she had a second stroke, the doctors wouldn't take it from her three adult children. It was terrible.

I feel I have completely run out of sympathy....and the ability to pretend. It sounds so awful doesn't it. My parents are always telling me that past a certain age you should get this, that, the other checked. I've no interest in it anyway, but even less so so now I see how life can end up!

[VanillaSugar]

Meant to give  for ParoxetineQueen

[LighthouseSouth]

today I'm seriously going to chat with DP about moving

there could be a constant round of "I'm ill -> I have treatment -> I'm cured" for another 20 years couldn't there?

Summer in particularly highlights how much we hate London but it's not the sort of thing we can do in a hurry anyway.

[Turquoisesea]

Sorry to everyone who is struggling. I also wish my DM would pass away peacefully in her sleep & feel guilty for thinking this as she was genuinely the loveliest, caring mum I could have wished for. Unfortunately she had some sort of massive mental health breakdown a couple of years ago which she has never recovered from. She is now in a care home as she couldn’t look after herself at all & is on medication which isn’t helping & has been abandoned by the mental health services. I am the only person who visits her as she won’t let anyone else. My DSis & DBro aren’t local & maybe visit her twice a year. Ironically physically she is in good shape for 83. Her anxiety is off the scale, she doesn’t really have any conversation & spends every day sitting in a chair staring at the wall. In nearly 2 years she hasn’t once read a book, watched TV, join in with anything or leave the home. It is exhausting mentally visiting her as there is never any improvement & I have the constant guilt that I can’t help her or spend more time with her. I pray every day that she will pass away peacefully in her sleep as she has zero quality of life & selfishly it would be a massive relief!

[LighthouseSouth]

@Turquoisesea

gosh, your poor mum. I understand what a burden that is for everyone else of course.

[Turquoisesea]

Thank you. I just can’t see her ever improving & it’s heartbreaking just seeing her sit there day after day in such turmoil. Everything sends her into a panic so have to be so relentlessly cheerful when visiting her & usually burst into tears as soon as Im back home

[gingercat02]

Not evil! I was pleased when my father died for many many reasons and I didn't have to care for the miserable old git

[LighthouseSouth]

@gingercat02

thanks and I'm sorry you had to deal with all that

losing my temper with the olds seems to have done some good. I haven't been in touch but my mum rang and said that actually they are starting to acknowledge they might live well into their 90s and will need a nursing home etc and I can't be expected to run round after them or base where I live on their needs.

I am relieved to hear this, though how long it will last no one knows. She also said to me not to worry about accompanying dad for his latest round of treatments - the ones he refused last year - and that she will do it.

tbh in the past I would have worried about her doing it but now I just think apart from the 3 hour round trip and time off work, she is the one who really wants him to have treatments and if I went, she'd likely end up tagging along anyway. If they want to prop each other up till 100 that's fine, I respect their choice, but I cannot be part of all the to-ing and fro-ing any more and I'll be into unpaid days at work if I keep using annual leave. Boss has now been very good about it all over a period of 5 years, but I think it has tested her patience at times.

[FuckKnuckle]

Only just found this thread. I wish I'd discovered it a long time ago. OP, you are not evil. Not at all.

Every morning I hope that today will be the day I get the phone call from the nursing home to say my mother died in the night. Not so long ago, DH came home from work early; he messaged me to say that he was on his way as he'd been taken ill, but I didn't get the message, and when I saw him walking up the garden path I thought she had died and he'd been contacted at work. My immediate reaction was, "Oh, at last - it's over..."

My DF died nearly 20 years ago, and all she wants is to be with him. She's bedridden, doubly incontinent, pretty much paralysed on one side, her eyesight and hearing are very poor, and when we visit her all she talks about is how she wishes she was dead and how she hopes every night that she won't wake up in the morning. We (me and DB and my DH, who is an absolute saint and without whom we'd probably both have had a breakdown by now) have tried so hard to find things for her to do, look at, talk about, but it's impossible to divert her...visits are purely duty.

When she does finally go, it will be a relief for all of us.

There, I've said it. And it was very therapeutic, and a little bit scary.

[LighthouseSouth]

@FuckKnuckle

[FuckKnuckle]

@Lighthouse, thankyou.

And for you too. Well done for stepping back a bit and giving yourself some space. One of the things that has kept me sane was advice I read on various posts here on Mumsnet - phrases like, "you are not responsible for anybody else's happiness" helped me to see the wood for the trees and to allow myself to have time for me and stop keeping my life on hold waiting for the day when I didn't have to worry about DM any more.

[LighthouseSouth]

@FuckKnuckle

I do really love my mum and I don't like being far from her tbh. But she is devoted to my dad, which makes it hard, and he is very robust and will live longer.

it's weird; I didn't move away in my 20s and 30s when I wanted to because I was terrified they would die. I even turned down the chance to work in New York.

Now, my actual fear is them living till 95 in a nursing home and not even recognising us when we visit. but I suppose I never thought of that happening. To some extent it's been a surprise to my generation - we simply didn't realise the drugs would keep developing and also didn't realise there would be such an obsession with keeping people alive. I thought my parents would never "choose" that kind of thing but now they take all the preventative drugs, have every procedure - dad has another ICD now which they say will give him another 10 years so that's 90 - and they won't sign a DNR, to me that's effectively saying that they are happy with the idea of being 90+ in a home and not really able to do anything.

I'm surprised because that's not a choice I ever thought they'd make. I'm also scared for myself because of how it impacts me though.