Probably going down in flames...

[Ophelialovescats]

I am saying something here that I cannot say in real life , so ,here goes....I am looking forward to my elderly mother's death...
OMG ! I am evil !

[Fedupfiona]

Snuggle
I feel the same a lot of the time . It is relentless.
My own parents had none of this caring themselves . Horrible of me to say but by their mid 40s they were free agents . Retired by 54. All of expected to be out of the home and independent by 18. I would never have asked or expected help or emotional support .

[Snugglepiggy]

Very late to this thread and have skimmed through to get the gist and today just need somewhere to vent.I hear what you say OP and you're not evil.I want my mum to die because she is repeatedly telling us she's had enough.It is what she wants.She is in her late 90s ,very frail,losing her sight and yet still living at home but refusing any help but for a cleaner once a fortnight - and that's been an almighty struggle to get that accepted.She is housebound so everything else is down to myself and my siblings,but everything is a battle.She will tell you how hard everything is,but fights any practical solutions. She will tell you she doesn't need a visit,then be miserable and say she didn't see anyone.
I have realised recently that I feel stressed and anxious a lot and it's the drip drip effect of dreading going to see her - most days - and guilt if I don't.She gets basic attendance allowance but won't hear of anyone else doing her shopping,washing etc.She can manage is all I hear.Except she can't. We do it.
She wasn't a bad mum by any means,but her career was hugely important to her.From about 13 I had a key after school,sorted all my own meals, washing etc..She did help as a grandma to a certain extent but pretty much when it suited her..
I feel resentment that she had none of this responsibilty .At 60 she retired,had her hobbies and holidays - and a state pension -and for a brief period took her MIL the odd meal.Her own mum had died before she retired.But it sounds harsh to say this seems to be going on forever,and I know when she has gone I will feel sadness but increasing I think a massive release.I feel my own life is on hold until she dies.Just having a bad day today I guess !

[Fedupfiona]

Hi OP,

Are you still here? I know this is an old thread but it’s still limping along - a bit like the people on it maybe - myself included.
I posted at the start of the thread and still find so much comfort in re reading it. I hope people are doing ok.

My father is still alive and still keeping careful note of who does what and if you skip a ‘duty’ it is noted and you’ll get the ‘face’ plus a bad mouthing behind your back ( it always gets back to you).Nothing is said openly. There is no honest conversation. it is very important to him that family do everything as he views that as a sign of how much he is loved . He harshly judges people who put parents in a home , no matter what the reason. He harshly judges everyone .
I’m such a horrible person for writing that but it’s how I feel . In fact I feel a lot more but I’m holding back.
Op I’m Irish too. I think there is a hell of a lot of social and family pressure in Ireland to be a ‘good family’- ie everyone loves everyone and is close to their parents . That pressure may be what your sisters are feeling - what will the neighbours say if we put mum in a home?
My family is completely fractured now. Actually that’s not true. It was always fractured but now it’s no longer hidden.
Don’t let your siblings order you about . Do what you can / want to and no more.

[roisinagusniamh]

us home, rather.

[roisinagusniamh]

Thank you Mere .
I had a frank conversation with my sibling about how we are going to tackle this. We both feel that our Mum is becoming more and more unhappy, lost and confused due to the moving from house to house. Last week she spent all week in one house but was moved mid week because they needed to go out somewhere and the other sib would not come to where she was at to look after her.
We feel helpless because they are dealing with all Mum's affairs....her GP, Social care, etc.
And they seem to think it is justified to summons her home every time they want to go to a Social event.

[MereDintofPandiculation]

Jeepers How would you like people to deal with you when you are old? Or don't you really believe that will happen to you?

[Jeeperscreepers69]

You dont have to look after her. Look for a home and be free. I appreciate how u feel. Im dreading my mam getting old old. Just dont want to deal with it

[MereDintofPandiculation]

Your poor mother! I don't know about the situation in Ireland, but in England I'd be advising you to be speaking to both Social Services and her GP expressing your concerns about her being moved around from house to house (very hard for a dementia sufferer and likely to speed her decline) and by being cared for by people with no dementia training who have demonstrated a lack of tolerance.

[roisinagusniamh]

Thank you so much for that Lucky.
Sorry to hear about your father.
They are ignoring our objections because Mum agrees with them and they all have a negative mindset regarding Care Homes. And I think they worry about being judged by the wider family and relatives.
However, they get cross with her and have little understanding of her condition.
They are going to share the care with Mum going from house to house.
The demands on us to do our 'bit' have started already.
One sibling just sent out a Group chat message asking for me or sis to cover the weekend after next while they all attend a wedding. I have ignored it so far.
It is ridiculous.
They are actually saying that they are doing us a favour by having Mum even though we don't agree.

[LuckyBitches]

@ roisinagusniamh

because they are going ahead with their plan we can't object

Is that actually the case? I think you absolutely have the right to object! They are going ahead with their plan, if they've not listened to you then that falls on them, in my mind.

However, all of this sounds very familiar - I thought my Dad should go into a home, but didn't dare speak up, and suffered years of resentful caregiving. I would advise anyone in your position (early dementia of parent) to consider exactly what you are prepared to do, state it, write it down, and stick to it. Be selfish, because I don't believe providing care for someone reluctantly actually helps anyone; the caregiver is understandably miserable, and the person being cared for can sense it. I know that my Dad died surrounded by bitterness and resentment and I can't say he didn't suffer because of that. He thought it was 1973 anyway, so he didn't know who these angry people living with him (his wife and my sister and brother) were. He'd have been much better in a home, and so would everyone apart from his wife, whose sense of duty overrode everything else.

And in the gentlest way possible, it doesn't sound as though your sibling's plan is tenable. Once dementia gets worst the last thing anyone will need is her moving around constantly.

I'm sorry you're going through this, it's bloody horrible, I know.

[roisinagusniamh]

Hi again, my siblings in Ireland have decided to take care of my mother themselves by taking turns to have her at their houses. She is in the early stages of demencia. She's needs help to wash, dress and with many other tasks. A Carer will come in to their houses twice a day to do this.
Because they have made this decision and Mum has agreed (as far as she can understand)they expect my sister and I,who both live abroad, to go over every school holiday and take over.
This has put us in a very difficult situation.
We dont agree with them taking on Mum's full time care and think she should be in a Nursing Home but because they are going ahead with their plan we can't object.

[LighthouseSouth]

I guess if there'd been a formal decision they'd tell you?

don't ask your DC to push you off a cliff - it's not fair and they'll go to prison!

[VentingDaughter]

I'm not sure whether there has been a formal decision that she lacks capacity for most purposes, although I think she certainly does for some. I can see why they didn't want to try to make her co-operate when she refused, and may have felt they didn't really have time to jolly her along or to come back later when she would probably have forgotten that she ever said No.

I've told the kids to push me over a cliff if I show signs of going that way.

[LighthouseSouth]

Venting, is your mum considered to be lacking in capacity?

it's very awkward I know. When my dad was in hospital once, there was a couple who complained that physio weren't making enough effort with the guy. I was there a few times and they clearly didn't want to force him. Then he'd tell his wife he wasn't pushed enough. It was ridiculous.

I actually found it quite harsh what dad was expected to do a few times - but he didn't and was glad to be helped. I feel sorry for hospital staff caught in these mixes. (I kept my mouth shut though, I wouldn't dream of saying anything if the patient is okay with what's happening).

Oh powers that be, do not let me get old.....

[VentingDaughter]

My mother can be quite bizarre about rehab. She was complaining to my brother that she wasn't getting enough exercise and a nurse said she'd refused to move when the physio turned up. Brother asked her why, she said she didn't want to, he said fine but she can hardly complain if she refuses to take up the offer when it's there. She was most indignant, and said "Well, they should have made me, that's what I'm here for!"

[LighthouseSouth]

I can understand that....an infection can make you feel so awful, there’s a lot of treatments I’d refuse but antibiotics is not on that list.

[ParoxetineQueen]

Interesting question about the rehab. Mum certainly didn’t want to put any effort into any exercise that might have helped her mobility or breathing after her falls yet has demanded antibiotics for every infection. I think it’s a case of ‘tired of living yet scared of dying’.

[LighthouseSouth]

As we are crossing all the lines on polite chat

I wonder if some refuse rehab in the hope of hastening death?

[VentingDaughter]

It's good to know I'm not alone!

[ParoxetineQueen]

Venting, second paragraph on I could have written every word.

[LighthouseSouth]

Venting, that sounds so hard. I must admit, again, I’m in the camp that would give very little to someone who had given so little.

“I'm really not sure that medical science is necessarily doing the elderly any favours”. This is true in so many ways. My mother expressed concern about me “doing too much” this weekend and I thought she meant work wise. Then my father expressed puzzlement at the time I took to run an errand and then said outright “how could you have walked there and back in that time?” I was actually dawdling because it was sunny. But to him, it takes so long to walk from A to B, he has genuinely forgotten that someone younger will do it quickly.

I then asked my mum what she had meant and it turns out she thinks my workout routine is OTT and the weights I use are too heavy. I remember when she was much stronger than I am now!

If I prayed, I’d pray to not hit old age. I was looking at a photo of them from 10 years ago - the difference is shocking.

[VentingDaughter]

Goodness, OP, your opening post rings so many bells for me. My mother was never the maternal type, and some of the incidents from my childhood that are coming most closely to mind these days are the times when she didn't visit me when I was in hospital, or when I didn't get as many visits home as everyone else when I was at boarding school because she thought it absolutely obvious that she shouldn't be expected to travel for an hour to pick me up. There were kids there whose parents lived several hours away who saw them more often than I saw mine, and it hurt.

So now roles are reversed after she had a mildish stroke after my father's death, and has been gradually sliding into vascular dementia. I've spent years visiting her in her sheltered accommodation and more recently in hospital and in the care home she's just moved into. I wouldn't mind but for the fact that she is so determined not to help herself in any way and is desperate for any excuse to moan. In the early stages she basically refused to engage in any sort of rehabilitative treatment that might have helped her mobility, speech and ability to write, and whilst she claimed to be bored and frustrated she rejected every attempt to organise things she might enjoy, even when they required minimal effort from her. She had carers going in twice a day to help with various things, and more than once I or my brother heard her being incredibly rude to them.

Things actually improved while she was in hospital - although she wouldn't admit it, I think she quite enjoyed being able to watch what was going on around her, and when she said she was bored I could see it was perfectly justified. However, now she's moved into a care home where you would think her life was considerably improved, she's gone back to square one.

Matters came to some sort of a head this weekend when, having spent the morning working on clearing out her flat, I spent what turned out to be over an hour driving to the home (due to bad traffic) only to find her again moaning about utterly ridiculous things. It was "too quiet" apparently but she wouldn't put on her radio or watch the TV in her room because there was "nothing on". She claimed the staff weren't helping her with practising walking, but she wouldn't ask them to help. She didn't like what she'd had for lunch, but she chose it. I can just see a return to the scenario where she won't take part in anything the home has to offer by way of activities and will spend her life complaining how boring it all is. When I heard her muttering that she wished it was my brother who had come to visit, I was severely tempted just to say "Fine, you don't want me to visit, I won't bother" and walk out and not come back.

But I know I won't just because I would feel so guilty. And a part of me acknowledges that, when she had the stroke, nature probably intended her to die, and the end of her life would have been much, much better if she had. I'm really not sure that medical science is necessarily doing the elderly any favours, at least unless and until a cure for dementia is found.

[LighthouseSouth]

If mine were in a home, I don’t think I’d go that often, that’s really kind of you.

It’s amazing how many of these “death is imminent” crises are not that at all these days.

[ParoxetineQueen]

Not every day, 3-4 times a week. It’s a 45 minute drive each way. When she left hospital they though she would only live a few more weeks and although she agreed to go to the home, I think she secretly hoped we could look after her but my brother was already feeling the strain and me moving in wasn’t a realistic option. I felt guilty so I felt the least I could do was visit her.
Although there is no dementia, the Mum I loved has long gone and it’s a living death for her too. As you say, it’s not how anyone imagines their lives will end.

[LighthouseSouth]

Paroxetine, so you see her every day? I'm 90 mins away from my olds so I have that safety net/argument.

it's the knowing you will be relieved...rationally I know it doesn't make me a bad person but I feel like it does. This is not how anyone imagines parental relations will end